Jump to content

APD - Miss use of lethals ( SUGGESTION )


Recommended Posts

How the System works:

  • APD officer "votes" for lethal ammunition - ( officer states reason for use of lethal rounds ) - This will allow civilians to see the reason being and can be "reported" if misused. 
  • APD officers of such rank of SGT or higher can IMMEDIATELY APPROVE of lethal ammunition.
  • APD officers on NOT as such rank such as Corporal or Constables, the first officer to press button will and must have a reason, if not POINTS can be given.
  • As officers Vote and has been approved ( Majority vote) then officer will have the ability to use lethal ammunition.
  • A timer of 10 minutes to defuse a situation with lethal ammunition before going back to "tracer".

How it can be effective for General usage:

  • APD officers constantly asking can we go lethals from of a lower rank.
  • APD officers when have the option can go ahead and use this advantage at any point when "APPROVED" by majority vote.
  • APD officers must state a "VALID REASON" and can be given points if misused.
  • Civilians are notified when APD officers are authorised of lethals ( this being to avoid miss conflict and being in places where not suppose to be)
  • Civilians have the ability to know who Voted for "lethal ammunition" to give further proof.
  • Civilains are able to leave areas of which fire fight occurs to avoid being killed.

How it can promote game play:

  • More RP ( this being that not any offcer can lethal on demand and requires a majority vote )
  • Avoid loading wrong magazine
  • Avoid APD reports for ; Corruption, Improper use of equipment.

Extra information

  • Simply click option on Phone, Providing area on a drop down menu ( City, Prison, Fed, bank and or Cartels )- Also a reason stated.
  • IR laser re-implemented.
  • Removal of lethal ammunition from shops.
  •  

 

People please post thoughts and concerns below,  my personal opinion, but would be a hell of a suggestion to implement and or improve.

Edited by Smee
Link to comment

My biggest issue with lethaling is cops often use the "Unreachable" excuse to justify lethaling people that are simply far away and not in unreachable locations. If you put yourself in a position to shoot someone but not restrain them it should be the responsibility of the officer to make sure someone is close enough to retrain them. Civs shouldn't suffer so that cops can play sniper elite. 

RobbyDoggy, Sliick, Gagss and 2 others like this
Link to comment
7 minutes ago, TRYHARD said:

My biggest issue with lethaling is cops often use the "Unreachable" excuse to justify lethaling people that are simply far away and not in unreachable locations. If you put yourself in a position to shoot someone but not restrain them it should be the responsibility of the officer to make sure someone is close enough to retrain them. Civs shouldn't suffer so that cops can play sniper elite. 

THIS! Cops do not push banks as they used to.  They sit on Flat rocks, first atm, east bay hill, and new construction THE WHOLE 10 MINUTES.  They play sniper fucking elite and its not fun for either side.  Cops should be making organized pushes with armor or without that's smart and works.  Its like everyone forgot the Sandwich bank video.  This goes for more than just bank as well

Gagss and Donald like this
Link to comment
1 minute ago, •ÐŠ• Randy said:

The problem i have with this is i feel like this would only work in banks feds prisons. Lets say there are 2 cops in a situation at meth lab, and the rest are in kavala with no sgt on, so now every cop on the server has to vote for them? What about afk cops or cops that dont see it or dont vote?

Well there shouldnt be any AFK cops

officer that come late to the party should have the option if it was Voted

Officers that dont vote obviously dont want to authorise lethals.

Edited by Smee
Link to comment
7 minutes ago, TRYHARD said:

My biggest issue with lethaling is cops often use the "Unreachable" excuse to justify lethaling people that are simply far away and not in unreachable locations. If you put yourself in a position to shoot someone but not restrain them it should be the responsibility of the officer to make sure someone is close enough to retrain them. Civs shouldn't suffer so that cops can play sniper elite. 

So what are you suggesting the officer do in that situation? Just keep downing the individual until one of the people you are playing with eventually kills them? Dude I understand it can get abused like most things in this game but the option to lethal in those situations is to improve the odds of the cop force taking the rest of the rebels down. Back in the good old days when p4 was a thing, rebels would love to get lethaled. I don’t know what’s wrong with people now that they just want everything to be easy for them.

massi, Innate, Sp0on and 3 others like this
Link to comment
Just now, Term said:

So what are you suggesting the officer do in that situation? Just keep downing the individual until one of the people you are playing with eventually kills them? Dude I understand it can get abused like most things in this game but the option to lethal in those situations is to improve the odds of the cop force taking the rest of the rebels down. Back in the good old days when p4 was a thing, rebels would love to get lethaled. I don’t know what’s wrong with people now that they just want everything to be easy for them.

people also want to RP :shrug:

Gagss likes this
Link to comment
3 minutes ago, ItsFevver said:

THIS! Cops do not push banks as they used to.  They sit on Flat rocks, first atm, east bay hill, and new construction THE WHOLE 10 MINUTES.  They play sniper fucking elite and its not fun for either side.  Cops should be making organized pushes with armor or without that's smart and works.  Its like everyone forgot the Sandwich bank video.  This goes for more than just bank as well

Yeah its sad. Used to get the swat strider push and if that failed they would pull a couple hunters. Now the higher ups drive prowlers to construction/lighthouse while the constables suicide slam the bank. 

Funny to hear higher ups say "Im not wasting my money Im just gonna lose it" Like why did you go for a promotion if you wont even pull a hunter for a bank/prison?

3 minutes ago, Term said:

So what are you suggesting the officer do in that situation? Just keep downing the individual until one of the people you are playing with eventually kills them? Dude I understand it can get abused like most things in this game but the option to lethal in those situations is to improve the odds of the cop force taking the rest of the rebels down. Back in the good old days when p4 was a thing, rebels would love to get lethaled. I don’t know what’s wrong with people now that they just want everything to be easy for them.

My point is the cop shouldn't be shooting from far away in the first place. All cops do now is post up on construction and first ATM at the bank. Maybe force them to push for once. Have a sniper or two but always have people ready to go for restraints. 

Sliick and Donald like this
Link to comment
5 minutes ago, ItsFevver said:

THIS! Cops do not push banks as they used to.  They sit on Flat rocks, first atm, east bay hill, and new construction THE WHOLE 10 MINUTES.  They play sniper fucking elite and its not fun for either side.  Cops should be making organized pushes with armor or without that's smart and works.  Its like everyone forgot the Sandwich bank video.  This goes for more than just bank as well

Ok when you are doing a bank where do you usually sit? On the roof? Let’s say the cops push up to the bank and disarm it? What now? They just wait on the ladders with the rebel’s watching them. So there is a reason people play those sniper positions. It’s nearly impossible to get the people on the roof without lethaling some. Let’s assume there are multiple people on the roof just watching the ladders, how do you get up there? You could either attempt a hot drop or letal people so you can get an opportunity to push up the ladders which is what cops usually do. So I don’t know what’s the issue.

massi and Nick like this
Link to comment

No.

 

I don’t think this is a good idea.

Sergeants are trusted members of the APD, and this is is useless.

Let me break it down. 

 

1. We have an IA system which requires video evidence. No need for a system that just marks down when lethals are used when it doesn’t matter. The victim can just post his side and let the reviewer decide the appropriateness of lethals In the scenerio. 

2. The whole point is not to trust officers lower than the rank of sergeant. The point of contacting a higher up for lethals is to actually allow the higher up to interrogate your reasons for the request. Typing a mere phrase in a text box is not beneficial to a higher up in getting all the details he/ she needs. The text thing is a time burden to the officer, whereas verbal communication isn’t. An officer can put any lie or reason in that  text box and get unnecessary lethals, it won’t prevent anything. 

3. This system has no regard for the times when a higher up is not present. Unless you actually want to remove the unanimous consent policy we have now

4. The 10 minute thing is pointless and inconvient. I’ve been in feds where fights have gone 30-45 minutes full lethal. 

(It also sounds like you want an officer to never have lethals until it is approved, then your magazines would some how be converted. If I’m correct in my assumption, that is just stupid). 

5. This system is streamlined and can easily be abused by officers through lying and misinformation. Any punishment in result of this would still need video evidence, which renders your idea useless. Why, because the video evidence will already have the material needed to make a decision. You can say that the text entry will provide some sort of insight into the actual officer’s reasoning for lethals, but, there are a multitude of other factors that cannot always be represented through text. 

Basically, record and report. Assuming that video evidence will still be needed to punish someone, the information you want this system to have is pretty much all in the video. It won’t help, it’s just a waste of time for developers 

6. This entire idea fails to account for rapidly-changing situations, it also fails to account for many more factors which I don’t have the patience to list. It doesn’t take an Einstein to find out what they are either. Sometimes, perhaps a lot of the times, this system is very inconvient for officers. 

7. Yes, let’s let the entirety of the server know where cops are already struggling to survive....... 

8. The point of lethals are to be easily accessible, and are already a commodity amongst civilians who kidnap cops. It would Remove a reason to kidnap police (which would involve rp to get them to drop their shit) and be very inconvient for an officer. 

Moral of the story: Sergeants and higher are trusted members of the community, if you think they did something wrong, file an IA! If you believe an officer shouldn’t of lethaled you or was wrong to do, then file an IA! 

 

FILE AN IA! 

 

This idea is just useless, we have a good system already. Internal Affairs Section.

Nubis, danile666, Bazzajack and 1 other like this
Link to comment
1 minute ago, Term said:

Ok when you are doing a bank where do you usually sit? On the roof? Let’s say the cops push up to the bank and disarm it? What now? They just wait on the ladders with the rebel’s watching them. So there is a reason people play those sniper positions. It’s nearly impossible to get the people on the roof without lethaling some. Let’s assume there are multiple people on the roof just watching the ladders, how do you get up there? You could either attempt a hot drop or letal people so you can get an opportunity to push up the ladders which is what cops usually do. So I don’t know what’s the issue.

once the bank is over the bank is over, the cops are not required to offer the rebels with a fight. ( officers discretion to keep fighting )

TRYHARD likes this
Link to comment
3 minutes ago, Term said:

Ok when you are doing a bank where do you usually sit? On the roof? Let’s say the cops push up to the bank and disarm it? What now? They just wait on the ladders with the rebel’s watching them. So there is a reason people play those sniper positions. It’s nearly impossible to get the people on the roof without lethaling some. Let’s assume there are multiple people on the roof just watching the ladders, how do you get up there? You could either attempt a hot drop or letal people so you can get an opportunity to push up the ladders which is what cops usually do. So I don’t know what’s the issue.

God forbid a higher up pulls an orca for a hotdrop. Or the people sniping down someone so that the guys can come up the ladders. Or maybe even utilize flashbangs.

Plenty of options but the only one cops want to use is loading lethals.

 

Link to comment
4 minutes ago, TRYHARD said:

Yeah its sad. Used to get the swat strider push and if that failed they would pull a couple hunters. Now the higher ups drive prowlers to construction/lighthouse while the constables suicide slam the bank. 

not to mention when theres no higherups on its pretty much impossible to push because theres no armor, really wish SWAT was still a thing. 

Link to comment
2 minutes ago, Term said:

Ok when you are doing a bank where do you usually sit? On the roof? Let’s say the cops push up to the bank and disarm it? What now? They just wait on the ladders with the rebel’s watching them. So there is a reason people play those sniper positions. It’s nearly impossible to get the people on the roof without lethaling some. Let’s assume there are multiple people on the roof just watching the ladders, how do you get up there? You could either attempt a hot drop or letal people so you can get an opportunity to push up the ladders which is what cops usually do. So I don’t know what’s the issue.

I sit second floor because dumbass Cpl+ push in prowlers and I pop their cherries.  Cops need to have organized pushes to take out first floor then disable the drill and then sniper elite kids at first atm cover fire the roof while someone with flashes sits on flash rock and flashes roof.  Then cops in weight room move up interior ladder along with side ladder and they completely stop the bank.  So yes there is a problem with 4+ cops ALL sitting 600m out for no reason

Link to comment
9 minutes ago, Dick Romney said:

No.

 

I don’t think this is a good idea.

Sergeants are trusted members of the APD, and this is is useless.

Let me break it down. 

 

1. We have an IA system which requires video evidence. No need for a system that just marks down when lethals are used when it doesn’t matter. The victim can just post his side and let the reviewer decide the appropriateness of lethals In the scenerio. 

2. The whole point is not to trust officers lower than the rank of sergeant. The point of contacting a higher up for lethals is to actually allow the higher up to interrogate your reasons for the request. Typing a mere phrase in a text box is not beneficial to a higher up in getting all the details he/ she needs. The text thing is a time burden to the officer, whereas verbal communication isn’t. An officer can put any lie or reason in that  text box and get unnecessary lethals, it won’t prevent anything. 

3. This system has no regard for the times when a higher up is not present. Unless you actually want to remove the unanimous consent policy we have now

4. The 10 minute thing is pointless and inconvient. I’ve been in feds where fights have gone 30-45 minutes full lethal. 

(It also sounds like you want an officer to never have lethals until it is approved, then your magazines would some how be converted. If I’m correct in my assumption, that is just stupid). 

5. This system is streamlined and can easily be abused by officers through lying and misinformation. Any punishment in result of this would still need video evidence, which renders your idea useless. Why, because the video evidence will already have the material needed to make a decision. You can say that the text entry will provide some sort of insight into the actual officer’s reasoning for lethals, but, there are a multitude of other factors that cannot always be represented through text. 

Basically, record and report. Assuming that video evidence will still be needed to punish someone, the information you want this system to have is pretty much all in the video. It won’t help, it’s just a waste of time for developers 

6. This entire idea fails to account for rapidly-changing situations, it also fails to account for many more factors which I don’t have the patience to list. It doesn’t take an Einstein to find out what they are either. Sometimes, perhaps a lot of the times, this system is very inconvient for officers. 

7. Yes, let’s let the entirety of the server know where cops are already struggling to survive....... 

8. The point of lethals are to be easily accessible, and are already a commodity amongst civilians who kidnap cops. It would Remove a reason to kidnap police (which would involve rp to get them to drop their shit) and be very inconvient for an officer. 

Moral of the story: Sergeants and higher are trusted members of the community, if you think they did something wrong, file an IA! If you believe an officer shouldn’t of lethaled you or was wrong to do, then file an IA! 

 

FILE AN IA! 

 

This idea is just useless, we have a good system already. Internal Affairs Section.

Now with parole removed, Friends dont have a way to make money other than using lethal bullets to basically pardon there mates, and nobody most of the time there isnt going to one cop on.

What im getting at is a whole prospective to provide an idea which can work in all favours, would love to see the amount of IA's for these reasons, and would Provide more APD's resource to process applicants and interviews.

  • Corruption
  • Miss use of equiptment
  • Failure to follow chain of commands orders 

 

Edited by Smee
Link to comment
2 minutes ago, Smee said:

Now with parole removed, Friends dont have a way to make money other than using lethal bullets to basically pardon there mates, and nobody most of the time there isnt going to one cop on.

What im getting at is a whole prospective to provide an idea which can work in all favours, would love to see the amount of IA's for these reasons, and would cut down APD's resource to process applicants and interviews.

  • Corruption
  • Miss use of equiptment
  • Failure to follow chain of commands orders 

 

Your idea does absolutely nothing. Our IA system requires video evidence, especially for charges regarding corruption and abuse of apd equipment. The video has it all, rendering your idea useless in any circumstance. Not to mention the various of the problems with the idea (refer to my original post).

Edited by Dick Romney
danile666 likes this
Link to comment
Just now, Dick Romney said:

Your idea does absolutely nothing. Our IA system requires video evidence, especially for charges regarding corruption and abuse of apd equipment. The video has it all, rendering your idea useless in any circumstance. Not to mention the various of the problems with the idea (refer to my original post).

Would love to see statistics of APD officers using lethal ammunition apposed to downing people. and it  will talk to itself.

 

Link to comment
Just now, Smee said:

Would love to see statistics of APD officers using lethal ammunition apposed to downing people. and it  will talk to itself.

 

Would love to see the amount of times APD officers on average get killed fighting the same situation. your point? It doesn't matter.


Each situation is different, each requiring different response. Like I said, if you dont think someone is properly using lethals, use the IA section! No point in your idea! 

Link to comment
Just now, Dick Romney said:

Would love to see the amount of times APD officers on average get killed fighting the same situation. your point? It doesn't matter.


Each situation is different, each requiring different response. Like I said, if you dont think someone is properly using lethals, use the IA section! No point in your idea! 

There is always a point in ideas, its to reduce the stupidness of officers using them in odd situations and not everyone records, and most of the time, its just less than 4 points which to someone means nothing.

Link to comment
1 hour ago, TRYHARD said:

God forbid a higher up pulls an orca for a hotdrop. Or the people sniping down someone so that the guys can come up the ladders. Or maybe even utilize flashbangs.

Plenty of options but the only one cops want to use is loading lethals.

 

It's really not about losing the armor, it's just that when you lose a hunter/strider you're basically giving rebels armor at a fight that you're already losing and usually strategically disadvantaged, making them even stronger because now they can drop on officers. I rarely pull armor for banks/prison and feds for this very reason. Basically adding fuel to the fire. 

 

Armor is only really useful if you're going to be dropping on someone or dropping people at a specific location. It's really not that useful at a bank and especially not at the prison. I'm more inclined to pull armor at the fed just because it's little harder for rebels to shoot you out + it can help a lot, especially if you're using nitro to get into the fed, but vans are way more useful usually than armor will ever be and you won't be running the risk of giving rebels armor to further defend the area with. 

Fried Rice and danile666 like this
Link to comment
6 minutes ago, massi said:

It's really not about losing the armor, it's just that when you lose a hunter/strider you're basically giving rebels armor at a fight that you're already losing and usually strategically disadvantaged, making them even stronger because now they can drop on officers. I rarely pull armor for banks/prison and feds for this very reason. Basically adding fuel to the fire. 

 

Armor is only really useful if you're going to be dropping on someone or dropping people at a specific location. It's really not that useful at a bank and especially not at the prison. I'm more inclined to pull armor at the fed just because it's little harder for rebels to shoot you out + it can help a lot, especially if you're using nitro to get into the fed, but vans are way more useful usually than armor will ever be and you won't be running the risk of giving rebels armor to further defend the area with. 

I disagree. Armor is great at banks a full hunter pushes bottom bank, clear bottom floor, 1 guy disables the drill while the other 3 cover the push from 2nd floor. In 30 seconds the banks over. If you're playing against semi decent players you will rarely make it past construction without being shot out your hatch.

Link to comment
13 minutes ago, william said:

I disagree. Armor is great at banks a full hunter pushes bottom bank, clear bottom floor, 1 guy disables the drill while the other 3 cover the push from 2nd floor. In 30 seconds the banks over. If you're playing against semi decent players you will rarely make it past construction without being shot out your hatch.

Idk i get shot out of armor just as easy

Link to comment
3 hours ago, Dick Romney said:

No.

 

I don’t think this is a good idea.

Sergeants are trusted members of the APD, and this is is useless.

Let me break it down. 

 

1. We have an IA system which requires video evidence. No need for a system that just marks down when lethals are used when it doesn’t matter. The victim can just post his side and let the reviewer decide the appropriateness of lethals In the scenerio. 

2. The whole point is not to trust officers lower than the rank of sergeant. The point of contacting a higher up for lethals is to actually allow the higher up to interrogate your reasons for the request. Typing a mere phrase in a text box is not beneficial to a higher up in getting all the details he/ she needs. The text thing is a time burden to the officer, whereas verbal communication isn’t. An officer can put any lie or reason in that  text box and get unnecessary lethals, it won’t prevent anything. 

3. This system has no regard for the times when a higher up is not present. Unless you actually want to remove the unanimous consent policy we have now

4. The 10 minute thing is pointless and inconvient. I’ve been in feds where fights have gone 30-45 minutes full lethal. 

(It also sounds like you want an officer to never have lethals until it is approved, then your magazines would some how be converted. If I’m correct in my assumption, that is just stupid). 

5. This system is streamlined and can easily be abused by officers through lying and misinformation. Any punishment in result of this would still need video evidence, which renders your idea useless. Why, because the video evidence will already have the material needed to make a decision. You can say that the text entry will provide some sort of insight into the actual officer’s reasoning for lethals, but, there are a multitude of other factors that cannot always be represented through text. 

Basically, record and report. Assuming that video evidence will still be needed to punish someone, the information you want this system to have is pretty much all in the video. It won’t help, it’s just a waste of time for developers 

6. This entire idea fails to account for rapidly-changing situations, it also fails to account for many more factors which I don’t have the patience to list. It doesn’t take an Einstein to find out what they are either. Sometimes, perhaps a lot of the times, this system is very inconvient for officers. 

7. Yes, let’s let the entirety of the server know where cops are already struggling to survive....... 

8. The point of lethals are to be easily accessible, and are already a commodity amongst civilians who kidnap cops. It would Remove a reason to kidnap police (which would involve rp to get them to drop their shit) and be very inconvient for an officer. 

Moral of the story: Sergeants and higher are trusted members of the community, if you think they did something wrong, file an IA! If you believe an officer shouldn’t of lethaled you or was wrong to do, then file an IA! 

 

FILE AN IA! 

 

This idea is just useless, we have a good system already. Internal Affairs Section.

This.

Op is trying to fix a non-existent problem. 

3 hours ago, TRYHARD said:

God forbid a higher up pulls an orca for a hotdrop. Or the people sniping down someone so that the guys can come up the ladders. Or maybe even utilize flashbangs.

Plenty of options but the only one cops want to use is loading lethals.

 

I do agree more people should push, but I have been part of and seen many pushes, many hotdrops, and many higher ups denying lethals, or calling out to lethal a specific number of people.  Also there is a problem with the fact that most events that occur have no higher ups on, or they log when they are triggered.  So armor and orcas are rarely even in the discussion.  

I make the bank push in a hatch about 60% of the time, it is all about your lines.  And I love me some flashbangs.  They just dont hit the whole roof/disable for long enough.  Plus it seems most rebels know where to look to not get a flash to the face.  

Most of the APD does not want to lethal.  They would rather bring you in and process you.  Often times they are left with lethals as an only option when faced with the constant overwhelming odds.

Nick likes this
Link to comment

@Smee I have not read any of the comments yet on this post but I have a few questions. Let me start by saying this is an interesting idea but here they are.

1) would the vote be restricted to a set distance. For example if you call for a vote in athira and I’m in Kavala. Would I get a vote?

2) what if one person is unreachable and needs to be lethaled. Would I need to call a vote everytime I needed to kill them.

3) if I called a vote but a SGT+ was online. Should it automatically only allow the highest rank(s) online to vote. 

Link to comment

Current system is pretty good tbh it's the people who are the issue, I've noticed a few Sgts+ will just straight up lethal because they can and no one can question it. That's the only big flaw I can see there should be more effort/rules where cops actually attempt to down for a period of time.

Link to comment
11 hours ago, ItsFevver said:

THIS! Cops do not push banks as they used to.  They sit on Flat rocks, first atm, east bay hill, and new construction THE WHOLE 10 MINUTES.  They play sniper fucking elite and its not fun for either side.  Cops should be making organized pushes with armor or without that's smart and works.  Its like everyone forgot the Sandwich bank video.  This goes for more than just bank as well

And rebels don't fight banks like they used to. 

It's all AHK pulldowns these days with even more elevated positions to lay on and just go for those sick bounties instead of actually going for the gold. ItInsert other media 's pretty sad when kids don't even attempt to hide their AHK scripts in their montages because scripting is such a common issue on Asylum. 

Why should a cop push a bank when there's 4-5 positions that rebels are just laying prone on with 3rd person waiting to use their little quick peek macros and AHK pulldowns? 

Only SGTs+ have armour, and 95% of the SGTS/LTs are literal fucking retards who are too busy whiteknighting e-girls and flaunting their virtual ranks to pull armour for the bank. 

 

Banks/Feds/Prisons are already cancerous due to the horribly misguided decisions of the captains, let's make it even worse so the limited number of cops that still play just quit and join a bounty hunter gang. 

Edited by Reformed epTic
Link to comment
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...