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Poll to remove cop vans as a means to go over fed walls

Poll to remove cop vans as a means to go over fed walls  

134 members have voted

  1. 1. Remove cop vans as a means to go over fed walls and add the swat ladder back.



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1 hour ago, Leady said:

Fed has changed. Until smash and grabs are fixed, tweaked, or just plain removed its the meta. No one is asking why feds aren't done any more. It has nothing to do with the vans. Smash n grab is the best risk vs reward in the game atm, ask any of those who regularly complete them.

We attempted 2 feds last week with numbers. Vans were brought, called out, and neutralized as a priority. When we lost we lost because cops overwhelmed a gate, held it and smashed thru it time and time again. After the 3rd van being disabled they changed strategy and ultimately 'won' (we still made it out with 5 gold bars).  Disable, don't disable vans for fed. I don't think it will change outcomes. The apd will just change its strategy. (little bird on the walls as they do with prison now, or on domes)

 

It's indeed possible to do it with vans there, I my self have been apart of many feds that were successful with vans. The main problem is that if they are placed properly, they can give you access to more then one entrance with a single van. Where that causes a problem for rebels is simply that you need someone, sometimes two people to watch specifically that entrance the whole time the fed is going on. This also ties into numbers, realistically you will need at minimum 14 people to do a fed with around 18+ cops on, not factoring in the armor they might pull to push a gate. I'm aware and thankful as fuck that the group cap has since been removed, meaning numbers should theoretically not be a question for rebels. It's just so unfortunate that you don't see large gangs on anymore. I will say this though, if you have RPGs then the fed is without a doubt much easier to do and that is because you can blow up the van before it becomes close enough to be a threat. However, this will greatly decrease the profits made off of the fed, considering that RPGs are obviously very expensive now. In my opinion, the best option is to reintroduce swat sooner rather then later. In turn you could deem using the vaulting on vans against the rules.

If this is not to be changed, the other option would be to give rebels the rest of the deer stands. I think this would be the easiest option, that way all factions can use the vans as they would before hand, and the rebels should be happier.

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16 minutes ago, Steve said:

It's indeed possible to do it with vans there, I my self have been apart of many feds that were successful with vans. The main problem is that if they are placed properly, they can give you access to more then one entrance with a single van. Where that causes a problem for rebels is simply that you need someone, sometimes two people to watch specifically that entrance the whole time the fed is going on. This also ties into numbers, realistically you will need at minimum 14 people to do a fed with around 18+ cops on, not factoring in the armor they might pull to push a gate. I'm aware and thankful as fuck that the group cap has since been removed, meaning numbers should theoretically not be a question for rebels. It's just so unfortunate that you don't see large gangs on anymore. I will say this though, if you have RPGs then the fed is without a doubt much easier to do and that is because you can blow up the van before it becomes close enough to be a threat. However, this will greatly decrease the profits made off of the fed, considering that RPGs are obviously very expensive now. In my opinion, the best option is to reintroduce swat sooner rather then later. In turn you could deem using the vaulting on vans against the rules.

If this is not to be changed, the other option would be to give rebels the rest of the deer stands. I think this would be the easiest option, that way all factions can use the vans as they would before hand, and the rebels should be happier.

HEY! Dont come here talking all rational like 

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In all fairness, this is why you rarely see large feds go down.

Back in the day they were a constant thing, how the big gangs got their fight in. Where as now, you only see "smash n grabs". The Fed should be for big gangs while the bank should be for small time crooks. Kind of weird how on Asylum it is the total opposite.  

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no. don't remove them. learn to play against them. 

you talk about the old fed being a "relatively fair fight" between cops and rebels. what? any rebels with half of a braincell would've won the fed regardless of any factors - the number of cops, etc

cops have been fucked enough as is may as well give them some sort of advantage, and honestly imo vans add something new to the same old cop meta of sitting 800m away from prisons/banks and dying or just endlessly baiting eachother at the fed

and as a rebel i don't really mind the whole van tactic being used at prison // bank // fed // whatever because it gives me something more to worry about / counter and it's also a lot more interesting than fighting cops sitting 800m away spamming shots of 5.56

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11 hours ago, Leady said:

Fed has changed. Until smash and grabs are fixed, tweaked, or just plain removed its the meta. No one is asking why feds aren't done any more. It has nothing to do with the vans. Smash n grab is the best risk vs reward in the game atm, ask any of those who regularly complete them.

We attempted 2 feds last week with numbers. Vans were brought, called out, and neutralized as a priority. When we lost we lost because cops overwhelmed a gate, held it and smashed thru it time and time again. After the 3rd van being disabled they changed strategy and ultimately 'won' (we still made it out with 5 gold bars).  Disable, don't disable vans for fed. I don't think it will change outcomes. The apd will just change its strategy. (little bird on the walls as they do with prison now, or on domes)

 

Best believe that little bird is getting shot out or even worse..... RPG'ed!

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12 hours ago, UC. said:

Well then they shouldn’t ask why people doesn’t do feds anymore:) 

Sitting in a corner shooting cops over and over isnt "doing the fed".... Doing the fed involved actually getting bars.

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TDLR : Cops compared to rebels in fighting scenarios will always be alot worse.

If the rebels have enough players cops dont stand a chance, with or without vans. 

Vans are a cheap way for the cops to get a " win ". Because they are simply not good enough to stop feds without them. Tbh the cops should be able to stop feds without the van.

And the main factor for that is there is no one to lead the other cops, our higherups are promoted purely on how long they have been here and how long they have been friends with higherups. In my time on these servers from 2014-2019 there has only been like 4-5 higherups who were able to lead other cops and take charge in big fights aka feds etc etc.

At the same time it's obvious not every single player on these servers are gonna be at the same level, and not everyone are even bothered with combat.

Not gonna lie, please value the opinions of the players that have played alot of both. Career cops who legit never touched civ have no idea how to do anything civ related.

+ alot more can't be bothered typing it all.

thero, Azeh, Jimbo and 8 others like this

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14 hours ago, Leady said:

Fed has changed. Until smash and grabs are fixed, tweaked, or just plain removed its the meta. No one is asking why feds aren't done any more. It has nothing to do with the vans. Smash n grab is the best risk vs reward in the game atm, ask any of those who regularly complete them.

We attempted 2 feds last week with numbers. Vans were brought, called out, and neutralized as a priority. When we lost we lost because cops overwhelmed a gate, held it and smashed thru it time and time again. After the 3rd van being disabled they changed strategy and ultimately 'won' (we still made it out with 5 gold bars).  Disable, don't disable vans for fed. I don't think it will change outcomes. The apd will just change its strategy. (little bird on the walls as they do with prison now, or on domes)

 

Everyone asks why feds ain't done anymore and the main reason is the vans 99% of the time, smash and grabs are not a factor with the vans because its over before you could even get a van, always how its been. There is no way to combat them without risking numbers on the outside for a stupid van. The APD needs direction to combat the fed, not vans or swat, brains or there lack of is what the issue is. Everyone is too pally pally with promotions to be deserving of a higher up position and then they just get too relaxed and look for any excuse to use something stupid.

Also anything i run into you and whoever you're playing with your way of "fixing" vans is RPG's, dont care what you say. Don't think in the very few times ive actually seen you play civ, i haven't seen you without a RPG.

1 hour ago, Rodrigo said:

TDLR : Cops compared to rebels in fighting scenarios will always be alot worse.

If the rebels have enough players cops dont stand a chance, with or without vans. 

Vans are a cheap way for the cops to get a " win ". Because they are simply not good enough to stop feds without them. Tbh the cops should be able to stop feds without the van.

And the main factor for that is there is no one to lead the other cops, our higherups are promoted purely on how long they have been here and how long they have been friends with higherups. In my time on these servers from 2014-2019 there has only been like 4-5 higherups who were able to lead other cops and take charge in big fights aka feds etc etc.

At the same time it's obvious not every single player on these servers are gonna be at the same level, and not everyone are even bothered with combat.

Not gonna lie, please value the opinions of the players that have played alot of both. Career cops who legit never touched civ have no idea how to do anything civ related.

+ alot more can't be bothered typing it all.

This needs to be enforced before any sort of stupid rule for vans or feds and whatever. Current APD captains and Lt's are too pally with who the promote and it just causes issues.

 

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14 hours ago, Leady said:

Fed has changed. Until smash and grabs are fixed, tweaked, or just plain removed its the meta. No one is asking why feds aren't done any more. It has nothing to do with the vans. Smash n grab is the best risk vs reward in the game atm, ask any of those who regularly complete them.

We attempted 2 feds last week with numbers. Vans were brought, called out, and neutralized as a priority. When we lost we lost because cops overwhelmed a gate, held it and smashed thru it time and time again. After the 3rd van being disabled they changed strategy and ultimately 'won' (we still made it out with 5 gold bars).  Disable, don't disable vans for fed. I don't think it will change outcomes. The apd will just change its strategy. (little bird on the walls as they do with prison now, or on domes)

 

You are saying the APD will adapt if one thing don't work?

We can all talk about stories robbing a fed that worked out in the end. If people don't see why the vans should not be there, then we are truly lost on the topic.

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7 minutes ago, Rodrigo said:

You are saying the APD will adapt if one thing don't work?

We can all talk about stories robbing a fed that worked out in the end. If people don't see why the vans should not be there, then we are truly lost on the topic.

That seems to be what this whole thread is about. If you remove the vans the APD will be just fine and figure out another way. To me fixing smash and grabs is a bigger priority than the vans. The majority of gold bars sold right now are in batches of 1-3 (Smash n grabs) which as has been said above, the van doesn't factor into. Its risk v reward. 

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The APD should be able to adapt, but they are not. A smash and grab here and there is not that big of a deal tbh, been done for ages and even more back in time.

I mean the van will obviously not have a factor in a smash grab, unless it's already on the walls of the fed.

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Just now, Rodrigo said:

The APD should be able to adapt, but they are not. A smash and grab here and there is not that big of a deal tbh, been done for ages and even more back in time.

I mean the van will obviously not have a factor in a smash grab, unless it's already on the walls of the fed.

I agree the smash n grab has a place in asylum. It's just the levels that it is being used at the moment is where my concern comes from. I've watched players, and done it myself sit on the hill and just wait for the fed to come off cool down to jump back in and get their 1-3 bars and be out some times before the alarm even goes off. 

A part of the van topic that hasn't been brought up much in this topic is it's use at the prison. Should it be removed there as well? Its a fair bit more difficult to get a van over that bridge or even sling-load it across. But it does give the cops a huge advantage if they get it there as its rather easy to peg people out of the deerstands when on the wall.

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6 minutes ago, Leady said:

I agree the smash n grab has a place in asylum. It's just the levels that it is being used at the moment is where my concern comes from. I've watched players, and done it myself sit on the hill and just wait for the fed to come off cool down to jump back in and get their 1-3 bars and be out some times before the alarm even goes off. 

A part of the van topic that hasn't been brought up much in this topic is it's use at the prison. Should it be removed there as well? Its a fair bit more difficult to get a van over that bridge or even sling-load it across. But it does give the cops a huge advantage if they get it there as its rather easy to peg people out of the deerstands when on the wall.

The prison is not that big of a deal tbh, the fed is more of a concern in regards to the vans. Because you got so much more to lose at the fed than the prison. 99 % of the time someone does a PB it's for the fight, at the fed people are trying to get money ( sometimes atleast ). And now when the big gangs are gone really. So super big fed have not happened since god knows when.

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From the cm standpoint talking with Mitch, I think we are both on the same page that if standing on the van is completely removed for one faction it should be for the other as well (the van is used often to breach Pyrgos and AirHQ walls). Is the community opposed to this? Or should we ask the Cpts to narrow it down and just make it fed limited and look at some point bringing back the swat ladder (I personally would rather see the swat ladder than the van in any scenario).

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18 minutes ago, Reapered said:

you die a hero or you live long enough to become gnashes

I believe gnash's exact words on jumping on the van "I can't be bothered to fix a problem BI created" or maybe it was his default response "Fuck off" Hard to remember.

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13 minutes ago, Leady said:

I agree the smash n grab has a place in asylum. It's just the levels that it is being used at the moment is where my concern comes from. I've watched players, and done it myself sit on the hill and just wait for the fed to come off cool down to jump back in and get their 1-3 bars and be out some times before the alarm even goes off. 

A part of the van topic that hasn't been brought up much in this topic is it's use at the prison. Should it be removed there as well? Its a fair bit more difficult to get a van over that bridge or even sling-load it across. But it does give the cops a huge advantage if they get it there as its rather easy to peg people out of the deerstands when on the wall.

Increase the time that it takes for the vaults to be hacked into and remove the talent that decreases the likelihood of you triggering the fed would make smash and grabs almost impossible. I also feel like the payout for a full fed should be around 1.5-2m and not the 600-700k that it currently is. Why would anyone do a fed that requires 8-12 people for a 50k cut when 3-4 can rob the bank and make 400k in half the time with a lot less effort.

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1 hour ago, Leady said:

From the cm standpoint talking with Mitch, I think we are both on the same page that if standing on the van is completely removed for one faction it should be for the other as well (the van is used often to breach Pyrgos and AirHQ walls). Is the community opposed to this? Or should we ask the Cpts to narrow it down and just make it fed limited and look at some point bringing back the swat ladder (I personally would rather see the swat ladder than the van in any scenario).

Im so confused, why does every change have to be compromised? Like legit when has that ever happened? A civ using the van to get into an HQ? 

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34 minutes ago, Rodrigo said:

Im so confused, why does every change have to be compromised? Like legit when has that ever happened? A civ using the van to get into an HQ? 

I know it sounds crazy and kinda stupid really, but people do actually get into hq's that way and every time it's a meme to watch the cops scramble in confusion running around like headless chickens.

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35 minutes ago, Rodrigo said:

Im so confused, why does every change have to be compromised? Like legit when has that ever happened? A civ using the van to get into an HQ? 

It happens all the time. Best way to vest Pyrgos HQ van on the wall hop over, in the back door. Boom goes the dome lol

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58 minutes ago, Steve said:

I know it sounds crazy and kinda stupid really, but people do actually get into hq's that way and every time it's a meme to watch the cops scramble in confusion running around like headless chickens.

 

56 minutes ago, Leady said:

It happens all the time. Best way to vest Pyrgos HQ van on the wall hop over, in the back door. Boom goes the dome lol

Haha wtf never seen it before.

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3 hours ago, Leady said:

It happens all the time. Best way to vest Pyrgos HQ van on the wall hop over, in the back door. Boom goes the dome lol

There are 3 towers and 5 deerstands in the HQ for a reason

Edited by thero
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@Rodrigo’s on the ball here. Civs arnt abusing the vans so no reason for a server wide rule.Ive never seen civs use them to get into HQ and I’ve never seen a cop use the van at a prison break. What I do see is waves of vans being slammed into the fed walls.

 

I’d suggest adding a policy update to prevent the use of vans at fed but I know most captains will allow them to be used anyway so what’s the point really. 

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Just put a limit to the number of vans that can be used a fed and it's a win-win for both sides

 

only allowed 2 vans out at the same time or something and not allowed to pull another until one despawns or is destroyed, profit

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I feel like the issue is the openings and it’s that they are in a location where whoever is jumping over can’t be shot from the deer stands they are next to. So you are either forced to play the deer stand and risk the cops stacking up and Pushing you all at once or you can play away from the stand which gives cops the opportunity to take it over. Moving the openings would make the  fed easier to defend while still allowing the cops the same ability to push

Tldr: move the openings used to van vault into a spot that can be better seen by the deer stands to balance the fed.Also how is unflipping your van to reach the 2nd story of sandbags not an exploit? Literally the same as vaulting off an object to super jump onto an area you can’t normally reach.

@Leady @Mitch (IFRIT)

 

Edited by cbakes

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Could also remove vans/ladder and add another entrance. In arma this is normally open but is closed off on Asylum. Throw a gate on it and its good to go. 

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Edited by TRYHARD

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