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APD Promotion System


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Just now, Samperino said:

Can you quote where you interpret this?

Getting Buckwalter Jr wibes here. 

I realise that was badly written. My bad

Let's try again here it comes. What do you think of the current APD system, and is it possible for the community to be informed about future plans?

And please elaborate Too much emphasis on the upper end, not enough on the lower end.

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2 minutes ago, danile666 said:

I honestly like the idea mentioned above of a sunset with a bit of a twist.  

So say for sgts.  

After 9 months you auto retire.  
you cannot reapply for 1 month.  
You can reapply the next period of you still want it.  
If you get it add 3 month to your next retirement timer.  So next time would be 12 months of you get it.  

Put something similar in for LTs.  

Give an opprotunity to rotate people in, and those guys can still come back if there are no good candidates promoted and the APD likes them.  Also gives a feelgood way to get rid of subpar sgts that arent actually breaking rules.  

Force retirement is bad. It pushes "promote quantity over quality" even further. What if there aren't any great candidates for the roles? Then we're promoting just to fill the numbers of the force retired.

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Just now, Rodrigo said:

And please elaborate Too much emphasis on the upper end, not enough on the lower end.

The upper end of the APD is too powerful, and the lower end of the APD is not powerful enough. There is a big balance discrepancy. If there are a crew of Constables/Corporals on, a gang can usually pretty easily take them on. Throw a Lieutenant or two, maybe a Captain into the mix and that's when things start to get spicy and the complaints start rolling in.

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Just now, Samperino said:

Force retirement is bad. It pushes "promote quantity over quality" even further. What if there aren't any great candidates for the roles? Then we're promoting just to fill the numbers of the force retired.

Thats why you would allow reapplication from those candidates, and extend the retirement period each time they repromote.  So people who are actually willing to continue putting in the work will and those who laze around are gotten rid of.  I honestly think at this point since 90% of the higher ups just do not play something has to be done.  Current activity requirements just aint cutting it.  

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Just now, Samperino said:

The upper end of the APD is too powerful, and the lower end of the APD is not powerful enough. There is a big balance discrepancy. If there are a crew of Constables/Corporals on, a gang can usually pretty easily take them on. Throw a Lieutenant or two, maybe a Captain into the mix and that's when things start to get spicy and the complaints start rolling in.

The upper end of the APD is too powerful only OUTSIDE the game. The Constables and Corporals do better without their higherups on most of the time. The major factor for that is simple. The Constables/Corporals are usually players who have played the game alot and is a better player than higherups. Simple as that, hate telling you that but that's how it is. If you believe a LT/Captain makes a difference when it comes to handling a gang you are so mistaken. If the LT's and Captains actually was taking charge, pulling armor, telling people what to do, try and cordinate the fight, then maybe it would get spicy. And that would only be if they outnumbers the civs by 10+.

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8 minutes ago, Samperino said:

The upper end of the APD is too powerful, and the lower end of the APD is not powerful enough. There is a big balance discrepancy. If there are a crew of Constables/Corporals on, a gang can usually pretty easily take them on. Throw a Lieutenant or two, maybe a Captain into the mix and that's when things start to get spicy and the complaints start rolling in.

When higher ups are thrown into the mix there is no difference of outcome 90% of the time because they do not utilize the armor etc that they are given along with the rank. Highers ups tend to do one thing while Coporals/Constables do another. Saying that adding a higher up or two into the mix of lower ranked officers does nothing. Most of the time they go 1 click, including yourself, while everyone else pushes so yeah. Apd higher ups right now are babied and friended into promotions whether you like it or not. There is very few higher ups right now of can actually control a situation without being threatening towards others because they dont know what theyre doing. People get promoted, buy theyre new weapons and armor, do the requirements and thats it, very few bring actual benefits to the APD and if you cant see this that this whole debate is a lost cause. The last 4 or 5 banks/prisons ive been too with higher ups the only direction they gave was whether it was lethals or not, thats it.

Edited by Sean That Irish Guy
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1 minute ago, Samperino said:

The upper end of the APD is too powerful, and the lower end of the APD is not powerful enough. There is a big balance discrepancy. If there are a crew of Constables/Corporals on, a gang can usually pretty easily take them on. Throw a Lieutenant or two, maybe a Captain into the mix and that's when things start to get spicy and the complaints start rolling in.

is this a joke?.. all u cpt's do is going to 1k and trying to snipe the bank. constable and cpl are more usefull then you. and wen it comes to prison all cpt's does is sitting on a hummingbird and going behind the prison.. why not pull a strider/hunter and slam it?

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Just now, Rodrigo said:

The Constables and Corporals do better without their higherups on most of the time.

Just get rid of the higher ups then.

 

Just now, Rodrigo said:

The upper end of the APD is too powerful only OUTSIDE the game.

More complaints come in about higher ups than the Constables/Corporals. Just take a look at @Pizza Man, he complains about the medic prestige perks when he can't shoot someone point blank. :frog:

Can you tell me what you mean by them being too powerful outside of the game?

 

3 minutes ago, Rodrigo said:

If the LT's and Captains actually was taking charge, pulling armor, telling people what to do, try and cordinate the fight, then maybe it would get spicy. And that would only be if they outnumbers the civs by 10+.

Unfortunately we'll just be going around in circles with this one.

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Just now, Samperino said:

 

 

Unfortunately we'll just be going around in circles with this one.

There is literally nothing to go in circles about, they dont do shit. Captains sit on 1 click sniping which doesnt help, Sgt+ are afraid to pull armor unless theres an admin higher up on and when they do give any sort of order its mainly about whether the situation is lethals or not like are you that naive that you dont see this happening? Do you honestly think the approach you and others have towards situations helps? Because if so then this whole conversation is a lost cause. You've been around long enough to under stand how shit works around so stop beating around the bullshit bush.

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Just now, Samperino said:

Just get rid of the higher ups then.

Just get rid of the higher ups then? Sometimes I don't understand you bro. Im not saying remove higher ups, all im saying it would be good with some sort of change. But clearly what people say don't budge you at all. Remember bro YOU are the Chief, you have the power to change stuff. And with you being just ignoring everything and go with your gut is not always gonna work.

More complaints come in about higher ups than the Constables/Corporals. Just take a look at @Pizza Man, he complains about the medic prestige perks when he can't shoot someone point blank. :frog:

Obviously there will be more complaints about higher ups, as they have more ingame power and more responsibility. And I agree with Pizza Man about the medic system on cop, it should be changed. And reworked a tiny touch, not to make people not play as medic but mainly for more balance. 

Can you tell me what you mean by them being too powerful outside of the game?

They only have power that matters when they are not ingame.

Unfortunately we'll just be going around in circles with this one.

How we would do that? It's obvious and everyone knows that, if not you are simply lying to yourself man. Ill say this once again.  Give me a number of civs and cops fighting at a prison or bank and ill stop that prison break or bank. With the right cops it would be a stomp.

And if it's not much to ask I would for more SGT+ to tag along and bring their thoughts. @DarkKnight @Codie Alterman for the most part.

 

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The APD is not an organized gang. Think of the APD as a very large pot of soup. There's a crap ton of ingredients and flavours, but there are some ingredients that just don't work in the soup. Sometimes you'll take a bite and it won't be very pleasant.

Organized gangs, think of those like a really nice filet mignon. There's one ingredient, and it knows what it is. And it's a really good ingredient. The filet mignon will always be nicer than the large soup with a ton of ingredients in it.

 

The arguments here are trying to assume that the APD is an organized gang, when it is not, and it never will be. What people are suggesting is for it to be run like one, and that can become dangerous.

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Just now, Samperino said:

The APD is not an organized gang. Think of the APD as a very large pot of soup. There's a crap ton of ingredients and flavours, but there are some ingredients that just don't work in the soup. Sometimes you'll take a bite and it won't be very pleasant.

Organized gangs, think of those like a really nice filet mignon. There's one ingredient, and it knows what it is. And it's a really good ingredient. The filet mignon will always be nicer than the large soup with a ton of ingredients in it.

 

The arguments here are trying to assume that the APD is an organized gang, when it is not, and it never will be. What people are suggesting is for it to be run like one, and that can become dangerous.

It's not about the APD being an organized gang, it's the fact they should still have people with the ability to lead and take charge. This is not Arma 3 Life. 

Obviously gangs and the APD will be different that's obvious. But still there should be an effort to try, but everytime this has been brought up we always get the same reply. This is not about making the APD as a gang or lead it as one. But to try and improve it. Even tho im not the profiled cop with 3 years as LT, our opinion should matter and been taken into consideration. So no idea where you got the feeling that we want the APD to change into a huge gang. 

And yeah we all have heard that the cops can't be as organized as a gang of 15. Please just remember it's possible to try and cordinate instead of not.

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1 minute ago, Samperino said:

The APD is not an organized gang. Think of the APD as a very large pot of soup. There's a crap ton of ingredients and flavours,

Well then take leadership as a Chief/Cpt and fix the soup... If u can't fix it then u not the right person for the position of Cheif/Cpt

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Just now, Samperino said:

The APD is not an organized gang. Think of the APD as a very large pot of soup. There's a crap ton of ingredients and flavours, but there are some ingredients that just don't work in the soup. Sometimes you'll take a bite and it won't be very pleasant.

Organized gangs, think of those like a really nice filet mignon. There's one ingredient, and it knows what it is. And it's a really good ingredient. The filet mignon will always be nicer than the large soup with a ton of ingredients in it.

 

The arguments here are trying to assume that the APD is an organized gang, when it is not, and it never will be. What people are suggesting is for it to be run like one, and that can become dangerous.

The APD is run more organized than a gang is on paper, its just the bad apples that give it the downfall in popularity. We aint referring to them as a gang or wanting them to be run as a gang we simply want the system that is currently in place to be fixed because it does not work. Yes i understand that higher ups need a bit of leniency here and there but its when that leniency is abused that there is an issue or when that rank is not used to its full potential and people just use it as a bragging right and not for what it was originally designed for.

Im trying to figure out here if you genuinely dont think theres an problem with the APD right now or if you do and just dont want to take responsibility for it because you are the one who has to deal and fix the issue but there 100% is one and it needs to be addressed or this debate and topic will always be brought up. Im trying to get some constructive conversations going here but you seem to be dodging them so along with everyone else youve responded to

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Just now, Rodrigo said:

It's not about the APD being an organized gang, it's the fact they should still have people with the ability to lead and take charge. This is not Arma 3 Life. 

Obviously gangs and the APD will be different that's obvious. But still there should be an effort to try, but everytime this has been brought up we always get the same reply. This is not about making the APD as a gang or lead it as one. But to try and improve it. Even tho im not the profiled cop with 3 years as LT, our opinion should matter and been taken into consideration. So no idea where you got the feeling that we want the APD to change into a huge gang. 

And yeah we all have heard that the cops can't be as organized as a gang of 15. Please just remember it's possible to try and cordinate instead of not.

Well it seems like you're trying to hold this movement to "improve the APD" which to me seems like you just want a bigger challenge in combat situations. That's not going to happen. This isn't wasteland, this is Altis Life. The main objective of the APD is role play, not combat. Combat situations do require some combat awareness and strategy/leadership, but to an extent. If you're looking for a bigger challenge, it's not going to come from the APD, it will come from other gangs.

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3 minutes ago, Sean That Irish Guy said:

The APD is run more organized than a gang is on paper, its just the bad apples that give it the downfall in popularity. We aint referring to them as a gang or wanting them to be run as a gang we simply want the system that is currently in place to be fixed because it does not work. Yes i understand that higher ups need a bit of leniency here and there but its when that leniency is abused that there is an issue or when that rank is not used to its full potential and people just use it as a bragging right and not for what it was originally designed for.

Im trying to figure out here if you genuinely dont think theres an problem with the APD right now or if you do and just dont want to take responsibility for it because you are the one who has to deal and fix the issue but there 100% is one and it needs to be addressed or this debate and topic will always be brought up. Im trying to get some constructive conversations going here but you seem to be dodging them so along with everyone else youve responded to

I'm not giving you the answer you want to hear, so I'm dodging everything and not taking responsibility.

:100:

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1 minute ago, Samperino said:

Well it seems like you're trying to hold this movement to "improve the APD" which to me seems like you just want a bigger challenge in combat situations. That's not going to happen. This isn't wasteland, this is Altis Life. The main objective of the APD is role play, not combat. Combat situations do require some combat awareness and strategy/leadership, but to an extent. If you're looking for a bigger challenge, it's not going to come from the APD, it will come from other gangs.

There are very few people who join this server for role-play let alone the APD. 

Lets put it like this: If there was an issue with gangs, it would be addressed so fucking fast. Perfect example was when Lt's actually got 7.62's to combat gangs and orcas. But when it comes to the APD there is always resistance.

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I kinda agree with higher ups being useless with pulling stuff a lot when they do grace us with their precense. 

 

I have had multiple prisons where we were severely outnumbered and outgunned, couldn't get a heli or anything across and we had multiple lts sgts and even cpts on. 

Begging for armor and no one would pull cause they didn't want to get rpgd. So we get murdered endlessly until an let who doesn't care hope on, pulls armor and wow, we make it across and end the event. 

We need guys who know what they are doing and will pull armor and push, not sit around doing sniper elite and not contributing anything meaningful. 

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1 minute ago, Samperino said:

Well it seems like you're trying to hold this movement to "improve the APD" which to me seems like you just want a bigger challenge in combat situations. That's not going to happen. This isn't wasteland, this is Altis Life. The main objective of the APD is role play, not combat. Combat situations do require some combat awareness and strategy/leadership, but to an extent. If you're looking for a bigger challenge, it's not going to come from the APD, it will come from other gangs.

Ill make sure to clarify. This is to try and improve the APD, but not to make it a super gang because me personally want a " bigger challenge ". If you didn't know I have played my fair share of cop trough the years, before you even were a cop im pretty sure. This goes both ways man, I want it to change improve both when im on cop myself or civ. And exactly as you are saying leadership and combat to a certain extent, but that extent is currently missing.

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13 minutes ago, Samperino said:

Well it seems like you're trying to hold this movement to "improve the APD" which to me seems like you just want a bigger challenge in combat situations. That's not going to happen. This isn't wasteland, this is Altis Life. The main objective of the APD is role play, not combat. Combat situations do require some combat awareness and strategy/leadership, but to an extent. If you're looking for a bigger challenge, it's not going to come from the APD, it will come from other gangs.

No one in all seriousness comes on this game to "roleplay", most cops get on to catch the "bad guys" but when you have higher ups who have no game sense, not actual knowledge on how to play the game and how to interact with rebels or cant even shoot a fucking rabbit in this game, then you are buggered. On top of that you have the higher ups who get hot headed due to them having a "rank" above others on a virtual game and start to take it on themselves to try and boss those around when in reality they dont have leadership skills and instead start becoming threatening instead of interactive. What you need to do is to be objective and impartial when picking higher ups because many of those who are higher ups nowadays are those who havent got a clue what is going on, dont know how to lead, dont know how to interact in combat and are given such positions due to them being mates with other higher ups which is not fair for those who deserve the role, will be far better suited for such role, and which use their privilages in the right way instead of having those privilages and not even using them. On top of that, Corporals and other higher ranks only having to log on for once a month is ridiculous, if they are not active, taking charge then they should be removed simple as that. Its not a matter of you trynna protect your mates but a matter of whats is in the best interest of the APD and what you are doing at this current moment is being oblivious to how bad that APD is currently and much of a change needs to be taken to improve the APD in all areas.

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You can always tell who the retard higher ups are by how often they sit in the support channels. Clearly they are on their computer but they would rather barely meet their hour requirements for a few months so they can retire and get perm corp. 

 

Need to remove the retired ranks so that when people get bored of the game they just leave. No point holding onto a rank you no longer care about.

 

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This entire conversation reminds me of Trump at a congressional hearing. (No insult intended)

You all are grilling Samperino hoping you get the response you want to get but know you won't receive. Honestly, I don't think anything will change unless everyone wants it, including those who are potentially going to get the negative impacts (higher ups in question). Make Section F an option for all ranks constable and above, who can be voted by and given to, over viewed by the Chief of Police.

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4 hours ago, Samperino said:

Just take a look at @Pizza Man, he complains about the medic prestige perks when he can't shoot someone point blank. :frog:

What is there to complain about?

Its not like the cops have 4 second unlimited revives compared to civs which takes 12 seconds and can only revive once every five minutes. Maybe you mean how civilians get revived at 75% health with a 10min debuff that prevents blood bagging to 100% unless you carry a 1.5k adrenaline shot and also have a 40 second fatigue timer which makes you have to consume a redgull or you simply cannot run while police get revived with no debuff, 100% health, and no fatigue timer.

Other than that, seems pretty fair to me.

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9 minutes ago, Pizza Man said:

What is there to complain about?

Its not like the cops have 4 second unlimited revives compared to civs which takes 12 seconds and can only revive once every five minutes. Maybe you mean how civilians get revived at 75% health with a 10min debuff that prevents blood bagging to 100% unless you carry a 1.5k adrenaline shot and also have a 40 second fatigue timer which makes you have to consume a redgull or you simply cannot run while police get revived with no debuff, 100% health, and no fatigue timer.

Other than that, seems pretty fair to me.

You forgot only a max of 4 people on the server can do this, and that’s if they’re all occupied by sergeants 

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On 7/2/2019 at 10:52 PM, Bandit said:

You forgot only a max of 4 people on the server can do this, and that’s if they’re all occupied by sergeants 

I think you forgot to mention that moderators/admins/captains are given the role of all three roles (medic/warrent/undercover) on top of the 4 medic slots and on top of every cop having the ability to revive anyways those 4 slots + staff (which at this point are almost all career cops) + captains and only one or two is needed to completely abuse the system, as this happens all the time.

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2 hours ago, •ÐŠ• cHIP oTLE said:

There’s honestly no good arguments being made for either side of this debate.  

Lock this thread already, it’s basically just a monkey poo fight at this point...

The actual problem is nobody is suggesting anything productive to fix what they have an issue with that isn't some extreme radical solution.

There's no easy answer, all anyone here has done is bring up/validate or invalidate issues. Solutions are hard. I'm a supporter of be the change you want to see.

Truthfully though, I think this discussion wouldn't be as bad if SWAT were added back. Gives everyone that fair shot at being successful. You die with that dank SWAT loadout in the first 5 seconds, you can only blame yourself for the wasted utility and fun toys to play with. Only abuse I can recall is people putting their gear in cars and trying to wear it after SWAT ended. (Like come on, that's laughable easy to punish lol). Should be priority tbh. Especially when we see how the devs have decided they wanted the Big Boi Crimes balanced. Was legit an awesome fun moment for all cops. I was excited as a LT with all the same shit getting SWAT cause it just felt cool.

It really adds responsibility to the player to do good and value that precious life of yours at a big boi crime, and if what @Samperino was saying is correct, and Rebels are looking for a challenge in the APD, this is a simple, easy way, tied to an educational training requirement (basically a disclaimer agreement or you get removed/lose SWAT ability) to add all these things into the game.

So everyone pressure the devs to add SWAT back in with V2 on release. You're all welcome. Case closed.

EDIT: Oh, here's what the SWAT changelog looked like back in the day when it was added btw: 

  • Introducing police SWAT teams!
  • SWAT will be called to duty when major crimes take place, such as a reserve robbery or a prison break.
  • When the event/crime is over, members of SWAT are returned to normal active duty and equipment.
  • The number of SWAT members will be at most equal to the number of criminals in the location of the crime.
  • SWAT members will respond within 4 minutes.
  • SWAT members cannot move more than 1km from the source of the crime or they will forfeit SWAT status for that event.
  • A SWAT team leader will be able to choose the insertion point location.
  • SWAT team roles are: team leader, assaulter and recon. Recon will only be active in SWAT teams of 5 or more.
Edited by Dust Runner
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14 hours ago, ron the player said:

retired captain should be a Corporal!  they don't give a fuck about the guide book after they retire ,maybe they would keep the APD guide book rules as a Corporal

Durga is a good example

maybe retired captains can keep Lt instead, as they do alot for the apd most of the time. 

Im actually the reason durga got removed xD

 

 

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I haven't really played much in months or even read the forums much lately but I read this and thought i'd leave something, I was a LT and I mainly played cop when i played asylum but i did have more civ/gang experience then some of the other higherups when I was LT so I guess im more balanced with my opinions,  After reading this thread I'm siding more with Rodrigo and Sean as they are kinda right, honestly when I played most of the other higherups were useless when in combat situations and would even 1 life shit and just give up on leading. There aren't that many leaders when it comes to higherups and you guys honestly do promote whoever kneepads the most(trust me I saw how the promotion system worked on multiple precincts during my time), not those who actually have a brain. I got back on the other day and I was in pyrogos getting lethaled as a fresh spawn and you did nothing about it even with you being there @Samperino , the APD seems to have gone to shit from what i've been hearing due to the people you guys promote which is something that should really be re evaluated. The only thing is, you guys are wayyyy too stubborn and never want to listen to the community, I always thought this even when I was a higherup. Force retirement would be good because it would bring change and some people have been around way too long at their position.  A lot of you guys let that power get to your head and start to get a ego from that but at the end of the day this is just a video game and I could care less but I just felt like jumping in this convo:shrug: 

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8 minutes ago, Kev 23 said:

I got back on the other day and I was in pyrogos getting lethaled as a fresh spawn and you did nothing about it even with you being there @Samperino

First of all maybe you can explain the whole situation and put yourself in the shoes of the officer at the time (welcome to 90% of IAs). 

Second of all, how on earth could you possibly know whether or not I personally did something about it?

13 minutes ago, Kev 23 said:

I was a LT and I mainly played cop when i played asylum

So you know that situations can get out of hand. You also know that if you feel you were wronged that you are to file an Internal Affairs report. You know that walking up to an officer in game and bitching about something isn’t going to achieve your desired outcome.

Yes something was “done about it.”

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7 hours ago, TRYHARD said:

You can always tell who the retard higher ups are by how often they sit in the support channels. Clearly they are on their computer but they would rather barely meet their hour requirements for a few months so they can retire and get perm corp. 

 

Need to remove the retired ranks so that when people get bored of the game they just leave. No point holding onto a rank you no longer care about.

 

Half of these higherups hardly play like if youre so burnt out just leave/retire so they can get new people in there... no point in removing the RET role because they earned that rank in the past and it makes sense for them to still be an officer if they choose to be one.

4 hours ago, Lucian said:

^ This. I don't see why higher ups even bother trying to get promoted when they never pull anything. Sure they might have 30 hunters in their garage but I guarantee they never get used. That shit is so annoying as the majority of the apd can only basically spam hatchbacks at the prison etc. which can be ineffective the majority of the time. Giving higher-ups better weapons make that shit so much more annoying as it promotes them sitting back and not pulling armor, not pushing with the rest of the group with their armor and better guns, etc

60% of Higherups aren't even active enough to make a difference and the ones that are are the only ones that pull armor I/E @Dust Runner and @WolfLeader

 

4 hours ago, Pizza Man said:

I think you forgot to mention that moderators/admins/captains are given the role of all three roles (medic/warrent/undercover) on top of the 4 medic slots and on top of every cop having the ability to revive anyways those 4 slots + staff (which at this point are almost all career cops) + captains and only one or two is needed to completely abuse the system, as this happens all the time.

Cause the Mods/Admins/Captains are soooooo active that it really matters come on dude pull ur head out of ur butt... The Admins that are Active also mainly play with other admins and not some Joe schmoe constable so ur point of the whole apd force being resed so many times is irreverent 

Edited by steelersfan82
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42 minutes ago, Kev 23 said:

I got back on the other day and I was in pyrogos getting lethaled as a fresh spawn and you did nothing about it even with you being there @Samperino

:D

24 minutes ago, Samperino said:

First of all maybe you can explain the whole situation

I was there.  He was trying to lockpick Morgan Lacerda’s littlebird.  And got lethaled.  I was trying to unflip my quad bike under the little birds tail and got lethaled.  In my case, it was warranted, a troll for a troll.  In Kev’s case, not so much.

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Honestly, with all the complaints about the APD.  I think a clean wipe would be great.  

Here me out...

1. The owners choose the CoP.  I would suggest Samp because he’s always been level-headed.

2. The CoP then chooses 6 Lieutenants (3 for each Precinct)

3. The CoP AND Lts then choose 8 Sergeants (4 for each precinct)

4. Everyone else is wiped back to Constable and the Corporal apps begin in 30 days from wipe.

Think of it as a Thanos style clean slate...

Opinions??

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6 minutes ago, •ÐŠ• cHIP oTLE said:

Honestly, with all the complaints about the APD.  I think a clean wipe would be great.  

Here me out...

1. The owners choose the CoP.  I would suggest Samp because he’s always been level-headed.

2. The CoP then chooses 6 Lieutenants (3 for each Precinct)

3. The CoP AND Lts then choose 8 Sergeants (4 for each precinct)

4. Everyone else is wiped back to Constable and the Corporal apps begin in 30 days from wipe.

Think of it as a Thanos style clean slate...

Opinions??

Well since you asked for opinions... that ain't it chief. Drastic change like that won't resolve any of the issues discussed.

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