Community Poll: Change CSAT + Carrier Lite

[Sheriff Rick Grimes]

5 minutes ago, Haych said:

Are you serious? How many times do we have to say this, on paper, they have the exact same armour yes, but, that is not the issue. The hit registration on Coveralls are broken, that is what gives them a huge advantage over Fatigues. Why do you think so many people want them? 

There is a spreadsheet, multiple GIFs and videos showing how broken the groin hit box on them are, the user takes significantly less damage when getting shot in that region.

 

 

Everyone just likes the pilot coveralls skin.  I think it's really cool that people are willing to spend hundreds on a cosmetic item!

[Seán That Irish Guy]

 

[Guest]

51 minutes ago, Haych said:

Are you serious? How many times do we have to say this, on paper, they have the exact same armour yes, but, that is not the issue. The hit registration on Coveralls are broken, that is what gives them a huge advantage over Fatigues. Why do you think so many people want them? 

There is a spreadsheet, multiple GIFs and videos showing how broken the groin hit box on them are, the user takes significantly less damage when getting shot in that region.

And this is just testing it in a environment with no lag, all units standing up, nothing to effect it. Now add server lag, client lag, different stances, different angles, different ranges etc..to this whole equation, you can see why its a big issue.

Videos are subject to a myriad of testing errors.

I direct you to the following:

https://forums.bistudio.com/topic/191737-updated-all-in-one-config-dumps/

https://www.dropbox.com/s/u40f6aeaktzl77m/AiO.1.66.139494.cpp?dl=0

 

Feel free to go show how they're different, please.

[Haych]

48 minutes ago, Gnashes said:

Feel free to go show how they're different, please.

Feel free to go test it yourself. 

Another example, 6 vs 3.

You can ask anyone that actually has a lot of hours fighting cartels, there is a noticeable difference when fighting vs Coveralls compared to Fatigues especially in CQB situations. Prior to CSAT Fatigues being removed, there was hardly any complaints about its ballistic protection because it was always a 3 shot max kill, 4 on the odd occasion when client/server lag comes into play. 

Putting the damage registration aside, the actual hitbox is also slightly smaller in the same region, example. Bullets only start doing damage when I fire slightly below the vest, same thing still happens when the barrel is further away.

Now combine 3-6 shot clothing, with the off chance your shot not doing any damage, with client and server lag, what you end up with is Ranga on steroids.

Olympus actually recognised the issue and removed Coveralls from their servers, its also why you don't see them on other servers as well, people have removed them, but kept the Fatigues, I wonder why...

 

 

Edited February 16, 2017 by Haych

[Mitch (IFRIT)]

So I have a slight question about this. I apologize in advance if I sound neieve.

 

But it seems that a majority of the larger reputable gangs are mostly in agreement that this is an issue. What happened to gang leaders communicating and agreeing that their members won't use these two gear items combined? This isn't a permanent fix per say. But in the interm it could allow players to medicate the issues. Food for thought here guys. 

@Bikstok

@Haych

Edited February 16, 2017 by (IFRIT)Mitch

[william]

2 hours ago, (IFRIT)Mitch said:

So I have a slight question about this. I apologize in advance if I sound neieve.

 

But it seems that a majority of the larger reputable gangs are mostly in agreement that this is an issue. What happened to gang leaders communicating and agreeing that their members won't use these two gear items combined? This isn't a permanent fix per say. But in the interm it could allow players to medicate the issues. Food for thought here guys. 

@Bikstok

@Haych

Im sorry Mitch but thats not how gangs work now a days

[Will]

Ifrit mitch has a very valid point here. /\
I think some of us could agree not to use pilot coveralls. I would be up for it as long as I know the other gang we are fighting is the same. Maybe create a thread were gang leaders can sign on behalf of their gang that they will not fight cartels with pilot coveralls then if the cartel goes up they can see whether it be a fair fight. I am one for statistics but when there's proven evidence its hard to not say there's something not quite right.

Just my 2 cence

[Sheriff Rick Grimes]

2 hours ago, Will said:

Ifrit mitch has a very valid point here. /\
I think some of us could agree not to use pilot coveralls. I would be up for it as long as I know the other gang we are fighting is the same. Maybe create a thread were gang leaders can sign on behalf of their gang that they will not fight cartels with pilot coveralls then if the cartel goes up they can see whether it be a fair fight. I am one for statistics but when there's proven evidence its hard to not say there's something not quite right.

Just my 2 cence

 

 

It's a nice thought.  But it's never going to happen.  The moment someone is losing they are going to use their pilot coveralls

[Vanilla Coke]

2 hours ago, Will said:

Ifrit mitch has a very valid point here. /\
I think some of us could agree not to use pilot coveralls. I would be up for it as long as I know the other gang we are fighting is the same. Maybe create a thread were gang leaders can sign on behalf of their gang that they will not fight cartels with pilot coveralls then if the cartel goes up they can see whether it be a fair fight. I am one for statistics but when there's proven evidence its hard to not say there's something not quite right.

Just my 2 cence

If only

[explicit]

the cartel meta now is to just waste a bunch of money until you're a fucking bullet sponge. 

@Gnashes, you're clueless. always have been in every regard. whatever you say is true and nobody can argue against it. doesn't matter even if they choose to argue because you dismiss their posts with bullshit. test it yourself.

as @Haych went on to say, if you've been fighting cartels for a while there is a noticable difference when fighting against coveralls / fatigues.

@(IFRIT)Mitch gang communication would be nice but rarely happens nowadays. just look at how misinformed the entire community was for months when battleye kicks were dismissed as "ddos".

@Will good idea, would never happen though. i could see it happening for a fight only till one of the gangs purchase them at rebel because of salt.

adding clothing like this was retarded in the first place. as @Haych went on to state previous, combine the amt of shots that need to kill a person + server lag + anything else that might happen. 

in my own honest opinion i am all for either removing the carrier lite or not allowing carrier lite with both csat and pilot coveralls. we played with only tac vests for how long years ago? sure, armor and damage values have changed, but im sure people would learn to cope with it. obviously some bitching would happen but that happens with any damn thing on this server that gets changed nowadays. everyone is a pussy nowadays. to get a fight from any other gang than prime and elysium when they get on (xd) you need to give the other group ifrits, buy their loadouts, fly them to the cartel, and let them defend. it seems like many gangs need handicaps like these coveralls posted above to be able to fight.

a bit of a rant towards the end of my post but i thought addressing it would be nice.

Edited February 16, 2017 by explicit

[Mitch (IFRIT)]

Like will said, make a thread so that it's public. And if someone breaks the agreement, there is a previously agreed upon monetary Fine. Of course it would have to be a gentleman's agreement, but it's worth a shot. 

[Donutkiller]

So, in all games there is a part where someone can get something better by chance. In which case Pilot Coveralls, you have a rare chance to get them and they give you some benefits (supposedly). I have heard some people spent HUNDREDS of dollars trying to get them for that supposed benefit. If I am correct, they are meant to be a skin and nothing else. In which case they should just, if possible, fix the script. Now, I see some biased people here saying that csat and carier lite should be banned from using with e/o. I would understand if the pilot coveralls were removed and something was added in place, I vote on some pink and/or purple csat, but the arguement of making it so csat and carrier lites should be banned from using it with e/o is I think stupid. Everyone has the ability to use csat and carrier lites together. In which case, if you choose not to use csat, you do not have the right to complain after dying from someone using them. Like i said, if you can't fix the pilot coveralls (if they are broken), then just add a different skin (again I'm liking the idea of pink and purple csat). Thats my argument.

 

If we are looking for a P2W benefit, you should be annoyed with the combat helmets, as they are not a big benefit, they still have a benefit with the armor rating and camaflage. I think they should be made so everyone can buy them as I do believe people who have not won them, are able to use them. (If you add the pink/purple csat, add a pink/purple combat helmet skin also)

Edited February 16, 2017 by Agent Donutkiller
Fixing my stupid ass grammer mistakes

[Sheriff Rick Grimes]

8 hours ago, Gnashes said:

Videos are subject to a myriad of testing errors.

I direct you to the following:

https://forums.bistudio.com/topic/191737-updated-all-in-one-config-dumps/

https://www.dropbox.com/s/u40f6aeaktzl77m/AiO.1.66.139494.cpp?dl=0

 

Feel free to go show how they're different, please.

 

 

I can't tell if you're trolling or actually believe pilot coveralls aren't bugged.  Does admitting they give an advantage mean you have to remove them according to BI's policy or something?

[Guest]

15 minutes ago, Sheriff Rick Grimes said:

 

I can't tell if you're trolling or actually believe pilot coveralls aren't bugged.  Does admitting they give an advantage mean you have to remove them according to BI's policy or something?

Per every configuration file within Arma III; PCs and Hex Fatigues are precisely the same in every aspect except the texture being applied to them, their classname, and their display name. They have different parent classes, but even the parent classes are identical in every regard with respect to armor, passthrough, critical hit percentages, etc, etc.

They are a skin. Anyone under the assumption they are anything else is misinformed.

 

Now that you all have sufficiently derailed this thread, please return to the topic for which it was posted.

[Sheriff Rick Grimes]

1 hour ago, Gnashes said:

Per every configuration file within Arma III; PCs and Hex Fatigues are precisely the same in every aspect except the texture being applied to them, their classname, and their display name. They have different parent classes, but even the parent classes are identical in every regard with respect to armor, passthrough, critical hit percentages, etc, etc.

They are a skin. Anyone under the assumption they are anything else is misinformed.

 

Now that you all have sufficiently derailed this thread, please return to the topic for which it was posted.

 

 

There's a thing called bugs.  I'm sure that on paper Arma says they are not bugged.  But with all the video evidence and testing shows on the contrary.  Remember when the downing script wasn't broken only for it to be bugged?  Pilot coveralls give an advantage, people aren't paying loads of money for them just for a "skin" 

[Bandit]

3 hours ago, Sheriff Rick Grimes said:

 

I can't tell if you're trolling or actually believe pilot coveralls aren't bugged.  Does admitting they give an advantage mean you have to remove them according to BI's policy or something?

 

2 hours ago, Gnashes said:

Per every configuration file within Arma III; PCs and Hex Fatigues are precisely the same in every aspect except the texture being applied to them, their classname, and their display name. They have different parent classes, but even the parent classes are identical in every regard with respect to armor, passthrough, critical hit percentages, etc, etc.

They are a skin. Anyone under the assumption they are anything else is misinformed.

 

Now that you all have sufficiently derailed this thread, please return to the topic for which it was posted.

He never answered your question...

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Sheriff Rick Grimes said:

 

There's a thing called bugs.  I'm sure that on paper Arma says they are not bugged.  But with all the video evidence and testing shows on the contrary.  Remember when the downing script wasn't broken only for it to be bugged?  Pilot coveralls give an advantage, people aren't paying loads of money for them just for a "skin" 

If you believe there to be a bug which affects gameplay, use the following link to report it. - https://feedback.bistudio.com/

As far as both we, and the Bohemia contacts Paratus speaks with, are concerned; it is a cosmetic change only. Plenty of sources to corroborate this conclusion (and I assure you, we looked before we asked if we could add them in crates).

[Widsyy]

pilot cov's for everyone and tac vest no carrier lites like the old days

[TheRealLethal]

3 hours ago, Gnashes said:

If you believe there to be a bug which affects gameplay, use the following link to report it. - https://feedback.bistudio.com/

As far as both we, and the Bohemia contacts Paratus speaks with, are concerned; it is a cosmetic change only. Plenty of sources to corroborate this conclusion (and I assure you, we looked before we asked if we could add them in crates).

i dont think anyone disagrees that on paper they are the same values. But you would be ignorant if you think they actually are the same.

[MrSmoke]

@Gnashes the more i read this and the more i think your a troll or something is wrong. You gave me aids.

[TheRealLethal]

Bohemia- pilot coveralls are not bugged and are performing as intended

Real life- 

 

[MrSmoke]

26 minutes ago, TheRealLethal said:

Bohemia- pilot coveralls are not bugged and are performing as intended

Real life- 

 

Working as intended.

If you believe there to be a bug which affects gameplay, use the following link to report it. - https://feedback.bistudio.com/

-Gnashes 2k17

[Crunchedd]

On 2/15/2017 at 3:49 PM, Bikstok said:

There's already a million posts about this issue already. The point of this thread is to get the attention of @Paratus to do something about this issue. The more people, who give their opinion the faster we will see a change.

I think most of the community agrees that CSAT combined with Carrier Lites are a little ridiculous. People absorb at least three 7.62 bullets in the chest before dying. Lag and desync makes this even worse.

Examples of CSAT aids:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9T_M3H6wNDc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUiO5S7TdI0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFcpZUPHzUw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DH2SbAofr60

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbQSVsnZZRM

+ countless more..

Also these stats made by @Axe indicate that pilot coveralls have more armor than normal CSAT: http://i.imgur.com/zjJcofI.png

What's the solution?

Add the script to prevent CSAT combined with Carrier Lites thus reducing armor stacking. @Gnashes has this script!

Alternative solution: Remove either carrier lites or CSAT completely.

There's a lot of different skins for the tactical vest, so this should really be a no-brainer for anyone concerned about their looks!

 

Please get all your friends to vote. The more opinions, the faster we will see a potential change!

most of those examples are either lag or hitting two shots on someone in the arm and leg if you slow it down idk why people expect anyone with full gear to die with one shot if thats the goal then lets just get rid of all guns except 5.56 and run around with slash vests

 

[Scott]

13 hours ago, explicit said:

the cartel meta now is to just waste a bunch of money until you're a fucking bullet sponge. 

@Gnashes, you're clueless. always have been in every regard. whatever you say is true and nobody can argue against it. doesn't matter even if they choose to argue because you dismiss their posts with bullshit. test it yourself.

as @Haych went on to say, if you've been fighting cartels for a while there is a noticable difference when fighting against coveralls / fatigues.

@(IFRIT)Mitch gang communication would be nice but rarely happens nowadays. just look at how misinformed the entire community was for months when battleye kicks were dismissed as "ddos".

@Will good idea, would never happen though. i could see it happening for a fight only till one of the gangs purchase them at rebel because of salt.

adding clothing like this was retarded in the first place. as @Haych went on to state previous, combine the amt of shots that need to kill a person + server lag + anything else that might happen. 

in my own honest opinion i am all for either removing the carrier lite or not allowing carrier lite with both csat and pilot coveralls. we played with only tac vests for how long years ago? sure, armor and damage values have changed, but im sure people would learn to cope with it. obviously some bitching would happen but that happens with any damn thing on this server that gets changed nowadays. everyone is a pussy nowadays. to get a fight from any other gang than prime and elysium when they get on (xd) you need to give the other group ifrits, buy their loadouts, fly them to the cartel, and let them defend. it seems like many gangs need handicaps like these coveralls posted above to be able to fight.

a bit of a rant towards the end of my post but i thought addressing it would be nice.

[Axe]

 

11 hours ago, Gnashes said:

Per every configuration file within Arma III; PCs and Hex Fatigues are precisely the same in every aspect except the texture being applied to them, their classname, and their display name. They have different parent classes, but even the parent classes are identical in every regard with respect to armor, passthrough, critical hit percentages, etc, etc.

They are a skin. Anyone under the assumption they are anything else is misinformed.

 

Now that you all have sufficiently derailed this thread, please return to the topic for which it was posted.

The fact that you say they are identical in EVERY ASPECT aside from the skin is false in it of it self. You've failed to even look at surface information that you seem to cite every time someone makes this argument. 

Now. This has nothing to do with the armor (possibly) but you keep making this claim that the files are IDENTICAL when there is a difference. '

 

LOAD and WEIGHT. Are different. As someone who said you've confirmed the files are the same, thats sounds like a load of horse shit. Just saying though. 

[Denied]

13 hours ago, explicit said:

the cartel meta now is to just waste a bunch of money until you're a fucking bullet sponge. 

@Gnashes, you're clueless. always have been in every regard. whatever you say is true and nobody can argue against it. doesn't matter even if they choose to argue because you dismiss their posts with bullshit. test it yourself.

as @Haych went on to say, if you've been fighting cartels for a while there is a noticable difference when fighting against coveralls / fatigues.

@(IFRIT)Mitch gang communication would be nice but rarely happens nowadays. just look at how misinformed the entire community was for months when battleye kicks were dismissed as "ddos".

@Will good idea, would never happen though. i could see it happening for a fight only till one of the gangs purchase them at rebel because of salt.

adding clothing like this was retarded in the first place. as @Haych went on to state previous, combine the amt of shots that need to kill a person + server lag + anything else that might happen. 

in my own honest opinion i am all for either removing the carrier lite or not allowing carrier lite with both csat and pilot coveralls. we played with only tac vests for how long years ago? sure, armor and damage values have changed, but im sure people would learn to cope with it. obviously some bitching would happen but that happens with any damn thing on this server that gets changed nowadays. everyone is a pussy nowadays. to get a fight from any other gang than prime and elysium when they get on (xd) you need to give the other group ifrits, buy their loadouts, fly them to the cartel, and let them defend. it seems like many gangs need handicaps like these coveralls posted above to be able to fight.

a bit of a rant towards the end of my post but i thought addressing it would be nice.

Amen

[Quenton]

Honestly I think it would be alot more fun to run around naked. In real life your not going to take even 1 7.62 shot and be able to move let alone spray down 5 more people. No clothing is going to stop a 7.62. It's kind of stupid how CSAT's and Pilot Coveralls eat so much.

[HotWings]

If people want it removed, I dont really see why there is an issue removing it and/or adding the script.  It does nothing to alter balance as it applies to everyone who has it.  Since Gnashes said he already has the script ready, what would it hurt to try?  

Edited February 17, 2017 by HotWings

[Hanzo/Dirty Scrubz]

Honestly at first I was against any change since I did dump $100 into getting the coveralls + helmet. However, lately I can definitely see the issue everyone has mentioned in this thread, there is something very wrong with the pilot coveralls. With Asylum lag/desync factored into the equation, I've had people tank 4+ shots lately and its pretty ridiculous. I think the tac vest script is probably a pretty decent compromise for now although I'd personally just remove the coveralls entirely and keep the carrier lite. 

[pete]

just add the tac vest script ye wee twats

[LastKiller]

On 2/16/2017 at 6:08 AM, Haych said:

Are you serious? How many times do we have to say this, on paper, they have the exact same armour yes, but, that is not the issue. The hit registration on Coveralls are broken, that is what gives them a huge advantage over Fatigues. Why do you think so many people want them? 

There is a spreadsheet, multiple GIFs and videos showing how broken the groin hit box on them are, the user takes significantly less damage when getting shot in that region.

And this is just testing it in a environment with no lag, all units standing up, nothing to effect it. Now add server lag, client lag, different stances, different angles, different ranges etc..to this whole equation, you can see why its a big issue.

who is that retarded to shoot an enemy in the dick?aim for the head upper chest throad area you imbecile

[Good Lub]

On 16/2/2017 at 4:05 AM, Gnashes said:

CSAT Pilot coveralls offer no advantage over CSAT Hex Fatigues. Multiple configuration files for the clothing's are precisely the same, which is the reason Bohemia has agreed with us and classified it as "the same clothing with a different texture", a purely cosmetic perk for giving money to the servers.

You seem to be implying there is an advantage to using them. There is not.

WELL sry for this @Gnashes but there is.Take a look at them in the virtual arsenal.u can see taht they offer more "ballistic protection"

[LastKiller]

they offer more explosive resistance from what i see @AAB mind giving solid proof to this in your post?

[Haych]

15 minutes ago, LastKiller said:

who is that retarded to shoot an enemy in the dick?aim for the head upper chest throad area you imbecile

You must be a god at the game, can you remind me who you are?

[LastKiller]

 

Just now, Haych said:

You must be a god at the game, can you remind me who you are?

A guy who knows how to aim and does not shoot enemies in the groin area

[Budbringer]

4 minutes ago, Haych said:

You must be a god at the game, can you remind me who you are?

He is the asshole who owns the house in athira between bounty hunter shop and dmv, and always locks his house. So uncool of him to lock it so I have to keep running around it!

Also, Rodopoli, thats who he is

[LastKiller]

Just now, Budbringer said:

He is the asshole who owns the house in athira between bounty hunter shop and dmv, and always locks his house. So uncool of him to lock it so I have to keep running around it!

Also, Rodopoli, thats who he is

and you are that retard who bounty hunts for a living right with those assholes right?

[Schiang]

5 minutes ago, LastKiller said:

 

A guy who knows how to aim and does not shoot enemies in the groin area

 

[Haych]

5 minutes ago, LastKiller said:

A guy who knows how to aim and does not shoot enemies in the groin area

Jump out of a Ifrit and spray at multiple targets in CQB. You'll be aiming for centre of mass while pulling down your mouse to compensate for recoil, the hit box issue starts exactly where the vest ends on the stomach, you're bound to have some bullets hit that region and not register at all.

Don't act like you're some sort of god who just headshots people in CQB, from what Anders is saying, you seem like a turf rat, so please don't talk about the game to me.
Everyone who fights cartels have experienced this before, you hipfire only to notice some of your shots not register when you are certain you was on target. The groin hit registration issue is persistent in nearly all combat clothing in the game, its just much worse on coveralls.

 

[LastKiller]

7 minutes ago, Haych said:

Jump out of a Ifrit and spray at multiple targets in CQB. You'll be aiming for centre of mass while pulling down your mouse to compensate for recoil, the hit box issue starts exactly where the vest ends on the stomach, you're bound to have some bullets hit that region and not register at all.

Don't act like you're some sort of god who just headshots people in CQB, from what Anders is saying, you seem like a turf rat, so please don't talk about the game to me.
Everyone who fights cartels have experienced this before, you hipfire only to notice some of your shots not register when you are certain you was on target. The groin hit registration issue is persistent in nearly all combat clothing in the game, its just much worse on coveralls.

 

well everytime i went for a cartel i was aiming for upper chest and pulling only a little down .plus i am shooting in bursts . never happened to hit that region

Edited February 18, 2017 by LastKiller