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Lower the cost of loadouts and vehicles


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25k-30k a loadout is just too much for cartel fighting. One of the biggest reasons A new gang wont fight is the cost of losing. Losing means you and your 4 friends lose 30k each in gear, a 120k ifrit, and for a smaller gang it is not sustainable to take losses like that often. I remember being in a starter gang for like 2 months and I can count with my fingers on one hand the amount of times we pulled an ifrit to take a cartel against even the worst gangs on the server. Orcas are just as bad. 

Possible solutions

  • Remove taxation from rebel outpost and turfs
  • Lower the cost of guns, rebel vehicles, and helis by about 10%
  • Lower the "On demand" cost of everything listed above

 

Random Idea

  • Since vehicles like .50 cals and ifrits are illegal, why not give an option at chop shop to make it yours for a small fee? Instead of chopping ifrits people would be "recycling" them.

 

It seems the devs are opening up to ideas to help the server so comment below with some of your ideas.

goyney, Gh0st, Spederino and 17 others like this
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Lets also think about the possible drawbacks from lowering the prices of load outs mainly guns.

  • Too many people shooting each other with high caliber weopens than b4
  • Kavala turned from pistol bangers to KOS zone 

I am not against your suggestion here but i am just raising some possible problems it may lead to.I would maybe recommend that gun making should take less ingrediants to craft them so that rebels can actually have more guns and loadouts in their houses.Or maybe a talent that reduces the gun purchase price a little bit so that not everyone can get easy loadouts

Patato and Gh0st like this
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5 hours ago, Silver-Spy said:

Lets also think about the possible drawbacks from lowering the prices of load outs mainly guns.

  • Too many people shooting each other with high caliber weopens than b4
  • Kavala turned from pistol bangers to KOS zone 

I am not against your suggestion here but i am just raising some possible problems it may lead to.I would maybe recommend that gun making should take less ingrediants to craft them so that rebels can actually have more guns and loadouts in their houses.Or maybe a talent that reduces the gun purchase price a little bit so that not everyone can get easy loadouts

Those really arnt cons.  Every one has an illegal gun, and if they dont theyre pistol banging or on their way to buy on.  Lowering prices actually would do much but be less of a money drain.  Couldnt hurt.

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Just now, Gnashes said:

So if all of the gangs agreed to use Katibas, all of the gangs would save more money?

You can't shoot people out of ifrits with katibas nearly as easily.

c091e18f454608a53a3468c1c7b5381b.png

Even with what I bought though I'd be at around 215. I also think I was using a tacvest at the time anyways, so those were like 25kish?

Edited by Steve
TRYHARD likes this
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Just now, Gnashes said:

I mean sure we could make things cheaper. But we'd just make everything else sell for less.

People only complain about the cost of gear because they buy the most expensive gear. That's not a viable argument to change it from a development perspective.

I guess there is some truth to that, part of what would be nice though is the auto-paying of cartels, even if there is no money being generated out of thin air. This would also make gangs want to actually fight them instead of camping rebel. 

Gang used to fight for the cap, and come back a dozen times, most are now only interested in the 60k in the fridge. It's also a pain in the neck when it is 5 minutes till restart and out of nowhere the drug cartels fridge goes from 2k to 70k and you know you won't be able to get it. 

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Just now, Gnashes said:

I mean sure we could make things cheaper. But we'd just make everything else sell for less.

People only complain about the cost of gear because they buy the most expensive gear. That's not a viable argument to change it from a development perspective.

 

You literally have literally forced people to buy the most expensive gear, which if they don't they will not be competitive.  Why am I going to be using a katiba against someone with pilot coveralls and put myself at a huge disadvantage?  You have made the meta more expensive.  This isn't even factoring in 20% taxes and high demand

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5 minutes ago, Sheriff Rick Grimes said:

 

You're so dense that Floridians could use you to protect their homes from Irma  

How is refusing to buy cheaper gear the devs problem? If anything, not being able to one tap out of vehicles would make things more fun, give more chance to push.  Gangs are responsible for how things play, the devs are not forcing you to buy mks at a higher cost without proving useful alternatives.  If you dont like taxes get someone in the gang governor, if you dont like the demand make guns. The ball is 100% in the players court.

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5 minutes ago, Gnashes said:

I mean sure we could make things cheaper. But we'd just make everything else sell for less.

People only complain about the cost of gear because they buy the most expensive gear. That's not a viable argument to change it from a development perspective.

Its not realistic to expect gangs to budget thier loadouts and risk losing cartels, banks, etc because of it. Lower cost of 7.62's and armor, but also lower the cost of lower caliber weapons to maintain the appeal of cheaper guns. 

People want to spend more time fighting and less time making money.

Edited by Noble
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4 minutes ago, Gnashes said:

I mean sure we could make things cheaper. But we'd just make everything else sell for less.

People only complain about the cost of gear because they buy the most expensive gear. That's not a viable argument to change it from a development perspective.

Sometimes i just think that if the devs were rebels and actually fought cartels etc., they would think waaayy different

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Just now, HotWings said:

How is refusing to buy cheaper gear the devs problem? If anything, not being able to one tap out of vehicles would make things more fun, give more chance to push.  Gangs are responsible for how things play, the devs are not forcing you to buy mks at a higher cost without proving useful alternatives.  If you dont like taxes get someone in the gang governor, if you dont like the demand make guns. The ball is 100% in the players court.

Ok man go fight a cartel with a 6.5 where everyone else has csat and has better gear and fight with ifrits and see how you do

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Just now, HotWings said:

How is refusing to buy cheaper gear the devs problem? If anything, not being able to one tap out of vehicles would make things more fun, give more chance to push.  Gangs are responsible for how things play, the devs are not forcing you to buy mks at a higher cost without proving useful alternatives.  If you dont like taxes get someone in the gang governor, if you dont like the demand make guns. The ball is 100% in the players court.

 

So basically the argument is.  Because the devs have fucked things up, gangs should get together and agree to use cheaper guns?  Seems very logical and realistic.

 

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Just now, Gnashes said:

The point of a life server is to make money, spend that money, and go make more money.

Cartel players just want to always be able to fight and never have to make money outside of what that fighting provides. This is not how Life servers work.

 

Lmao, that's what you have turned it into.  And judging by player count on the servers, your idea doesn't work.

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Just now, Gnashes said:

The point of a life server is to make money, spend that money, and go make more money.

Cartel players just want to always be able to fight and never have to make money outside of what that fighting provides. This is not how Life servers work.

True, but if stuff to fight cartels is too overpriced compared to how your making money (1hour of meth = around 3 loadouts) people are just gonna complain.. why not just lower a bit?

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11 minutes ago, Gnashes said:

The point of a life server is to make money, spend that money, and go make more money.

Cartel players just want to always be able to fight and never have to make money outside of what that fighting provides. This is not how Life servers work.

whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa, is that what you think people come here to do? To make money and go on to grind more money? People are here to fight each other, have light rp, and just mess around. Making money is just a means to an end, it isn't the end. Grinding money should be the tool used to put yourself into a powerful position to enter the end game and the end game should be able to mostly sustain them if they are good enough players. The traditional way you have people making money to sustain themselves isn't fun. You can enjoy it and some people really do, but for the most part it's boring and people see it as a means to an end. Why the fuck do you think people buy money from others? It's because making money the normal way just blows and the time invested for the return is kind of shitty.

Also, 5.6.1 nobody bought AD shots because they didn't work. mk1's almost never cost 10k and part of the problem is half the loadout cost is the cloths and most of the time you go naked and have to use the clothing store every 15 minute or you are getting one shot.

Edited by [§] Alex
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Just now, [§] Alex said:

whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa, is that what you think people come here to do? To make money and go on to grind more money? People are here to fight each other, have light rp, and just mess around. Making money is just a means to an end, it isn't the end. Grinding money should be the tool used to put yourself into a powerful position to enter the end game and the end game should be able to mostly sustain them if they are good enough players. The traditional way you have people making money to sustain themselves isn't fun. You can enjoy it and some people really do, but for the most part it's boring and people see it as a means to an end. Why the fuck do you think people buy money from others? It's because making money the normal way just blows and the time invested for the return is kind of shitty.

 

+ Fucking 1

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Just now, [§] Alex said:

whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa, is that what you think people come here to do? To make money and go on to grind more money? People are here to fight each other, have light rp, and just mess around. Making money is just a means to an end, it isn't the end. Grinding money should be the tool used to put yourself into a powerful position to enter the end game and the end game should be able to mostly sustain them if they are good enough players. The traditional way you have people making money to sustain themselves isn't fun. You can enjoy it and some people really do, but for the most part it's boring and people see it as a means to an end. Why the fuck do you think people buy money from others? It's because making money the normal way just blows and the time invested for the return is kind of shitty.

Making money is far better then it was around this time last year.  By that same token the increase in the price of ifrits and orcas as a result of how vehicle demand and supply deteriorates now is not good.

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Just now, Steve said:

Making money is far better then it was around this time last year.  By that same token the increase in the price of ifrits and orcas as a result of how vehicle demand and supply deteriorates now is not good.

I'm not really saying the state of making money is good or bad, I'm pointing out the flaw in the way this DEVELOPER views the role of money making as the core of gameplay.

Sheriff Rick Grimes likes this
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53 minutes ago, Sheriff Rick Grimes said:

 

So basically the argument is.  Because the devs have fucked things up, gangs should get together and agree to use cheaper guns?  Seems very logical and realistic.

 

The cost of load outs has barely gone up at all, like not even worth mentioning.  The amount of whining on the other hand is out of control.  Why is it so difficult to actually work for lower prices?

34 minutes ago, [§] Alex said:

I'm not really saying the state of making money is good or bad, I'm pointing out the flaw in the way this DEVELOPER views the role of money making as the core of gameplay.

Money making has always been a core component of the game.  People are just to fucking lazy to do it now.  If you want free gear there are other servers to play on.

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2 hours ago, Gnashes said:

I simply direct you to this old screenshot: (This does not take taxes or demand into effect. You guys can reduce those yourselves)

c091e18f454608a53a3468c1c7b5381b.png

sure you might be able to buy an mk1 for 10k ONCE. But as soon as a gang goes to regear they will be on demand and the gov may possibly put taxes up. Enjoy your 16.5k MK1. 

 

Also the argument for using worse gear to save money is rediculas. If we are fighting people with ifrits and CSATS and some dude shows up with a gun that is not an MK1, MK18, or an MK 14 they are putting not only themselves at a disadvantage. But they are putting their gang at a disadvantage as well because they are taking a spot in group that someone else could be using with a better gun. 

 

People will only use the best gear because they need to in order to win, the issue right now is that it is too hard to buy the best stuff without significant grinding. If you are gonna tell me a non experienced gang does not "need" and ifrit to push OG arms or meth tower you are completely and utterly mistaken.

Chungo likes this
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1 hour ago, [§] Alex said:

whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa, is that what you think people come here to do? To make money and go on to grind more money? People are here to fight each other, have light rp, and just mess around. Making money is just a means to an end, it isn't the end. Grinding money should be the tool used to put yourself into a powerful position to enter the end game and the end game should be able to mostly sustain them if they are good enough players. The traditional way you have people making money to sustain themselves isn't fun. You can enjoy it and some people really do, but for the most part it's boring and people see it as a means to an end. Why the fuck do you think people buy money from others? It's because making money the normal way just blows and the time invested for the return is kind of shitty.

Also, 5.6.1 nobody bought AD shots because they didn't work. mk1's almost never cost 10k and part of the problem is half the loadout cost is the cloths and most of the time you go naked and have to use the clothing store every 15 minute or you are getting one shot.

Obviously people don't come to farm money, that's why every single admin doesn't do it.

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1 hour ago, HotWings said:

The cost of load outs has barely gone up at all, like not even worth mentioning.  The amount of whining on the other hand is out of control.  Why is it so difficult to actually work for lower prices?

Money making has always been a core component of the game.  People are just to fucking lazy to do it now.  If you want free gear there are other servers to play on.

Yes it's the core of the game because you need money to buy and do stuff. The post is talking about loadout prices but I'm talking about how he views the server and the balance choices he makes and will make based on this view. The point is from his post it seems like he sees all activities are just a means to spend money in order for you to go back and grind more money. From what I'm assuming is that when he is saying money making, he is talking about meth/scotch/coke. I see these activities as the mid tier gameplay and is the launching board into end game rebel life.

In a RPG you should have early/mid/late game play, people need to feel like they are progressing and never really regressing when playing. Sometimes you will have set backs, but for the most part you want people to hit a certain level and be able to maintain that level. From his post it seems he was suggesting grinding money was the main form of gameplay and that you have to always go back and grind money. It seems like he wants rebel life as an endless money sink, but people don't want that. They grind coke/meth/scotch to join gangs and to reach the end game. Being a skilled rebel and cartel player should be profitable, but from his point of view it seems like he doesn't want it that way. I'm not talking about the price of loadouts or the money made from cartels, I'm talking about how I think the view "The point of a life server is to make money, spend that money, and go make more money." is wrong and I think dangerous to the life of the server.

Being a skilled cop or rebel should be profitable enough for you to be able to stay at that level with little regression. Career cops for the most part don't want to go back on civ and grind money so they can buy better guns and vehicles and same goes for rebels.

Edited by [§] Alex
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Just now, tryhardsqueaker said:

sure you might be able to buy an mk1 for 10k ONCE. But as soon as a gang goes to regear they will be on demand and the gov may possibly put taxes up. Enjoy your 16.5k MK1. 

 

Also the argument for using worse gear to save money is rediculas. If we are fighting people with ifrits and CSATS and some dude shows up with a gun that is not an MK1, MK18, or an MK 14 they are putting not only themselves at a disadvantage. But they are putting their gang at a disadvantage as well because they are taking a spot in group that someone else could be using with a better gun. 

 

People will only use the best gear because they need to in order to win, the issue right now is that it is too hard to buy the best stuff without significant grinding. If you are gonna tell me a non experienced gang does not "need" and ifrit to push OG arms or meth tower you are completely and utterly mistaken.

trying to foot push almost any cap is a one way ticket to getting dropped on one by one or roached. 

TRYHARD likes this
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Just now, [§] Alex said:

Yes it's the core of the game because you need money to buy and do stuff. The post is talking about loadout prices but I'm talking about how he views the server and the balance choices he makes and will make based on this view. The point is from his post it seems like he sees all activities are just a means to spend money in order for you to go back and grind more money. From what I'm assuming is that when he is saying money making, he is talking about meth/scotch/coke. I see these activities as the mid tier gameplay and is the launching board into end game rebel life.

In a RPG you should have early/mid/late game play, people need to feel like they are progressing and never really regressing when playing. Sometimes you will have set backs, but for the most part you want people to hit a certain level and be able to maintain that level. From his post it seems he was suggesting grinding money was the main form of gameplay and that you have to always go back and grind money. It seems like he wants rebel life as an endless money sink, but people don't want that. They grind coke/meth/scotch to join gangs and to reach the end game. Being a skilled rebel and cartel player should be profitable, but from his point of view it seems like he doesn't want it that way. I'm not talking about the price of loadouts or the money made from cartels, I'm talking about how I think the view "The point of a life server is to make money, spend that money, and go make more money." is wrong and I think dangerous to the life of the server.

Being a skilled cop or rebel should be profitable enough for you to be able to stay at that level with little to regression. Career cops for the most part don't want to go back on civ and grind money so they can buy better guns and vehicles and same goes for rebels.

I dont even think being a rebel should be profitable. But the level of grinding needed to be a rebel is too much. I can understand like one meth run a week to recoup loses. But instead we need to do like 5.

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Just now, tryhardsqueaker said:

I dont even think being a rebel should be profitable. But the level of grinding needed to be a rebel is too much. I can understand like one meth run a week to recoup loses. But instead we need to do like 5.

Well making money on rebel is hard, almost every aspect of rebel money making (fed/bank/robbing/cartels) is all versus others players. So how profitable it is all dependent on the skill of the player and his gang. So most likely you will have to go back and grind money, but rebel life shouldn't be a money sink to MAKE you go back and grind.

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