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Quick poll related to APD and lethals


Quick poll related to APD and lethals  

237 members have voted

  1. 1. Would you rather:

    • Leave lethal payouts the way they are currently
    • Remove payout upon lethal by an APD member, and remove the ability to be revived (except by an APD member)
    • Remove the payout upon lethal by an APD member, and decrease the timer to force a respawn for the killed player


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Just now, Tom Kappa said:

No, Lethaling from what I have seen is a way to fight back. I have more fun processing and rping with people throughout kavala than I do being constantly lethaled and listening to people on both sides complaining about it. I can't stand having to spawn into Kav Hq and being killed 24/7 by people that have nothing better to do and kill/kidnap cops

Then don't spawn Kavala?

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9 hours ago, Allstarplaya said:

According to the APD Chief of police lethaling shouldn't be used even if you are getting assaulted at an HQ by multiple armed qualins and there is only 5-min left to restart... and the Captain is in his own channel with a group of knee pad huggers not calling for downing or lethals. So prob should just remove lethal ammo from the APD as a whole.

you are a fucking idiot.no

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Just now, Jamal said:

are you fucking mental "hey we use lethals too much so lets just make it so that we can lethal them then have another cop waiting in a town to down and robocop them" you can't have the cake and eat it too.

I have a good idea lets make it so that cops can only give pardons when they process someone isn't that a great idea guys?

Says the kid who hasn’t played since January. Bye Felicia. 

Innate, Patato, Medi and 3 others like this
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8 hours ago, Austin Rogers The Original said:

The whole reason the lethal payouts were reduced in the past was to lessen the incentive for police officers to lethal civilians because they felt they were being overused. While I feel that the current lethal rules are good the way they are in terms of when officers can automatically lethal such as unreachable locations, shooting from benches, 1 minute to restart etc... I do feel that there are many situations where lethal force is used when it should not. Misuse of lethals should be a more severe punishment and or the ability to vote for lethals should be only Sgt+ or alternatively only corporals voting when no Sgt+ is on the server. 

On the topic of civilians losing their loadouts when being lethaled, I find that entire argument complete nonsense. When you buy a loadout you are taking the risk that you will lose the loadout when you lose the fight. Once you get into a fight regardless of who you are fighting whether it be a civilan, bounty hunter, or police officer you losing the fight is the same outcome. You losing your loadout. The fact that you "got lethaled" by a cop has nothing to do with the fact that you are losing your loadout. Most of the time not only are you taking the risk of using the loadout you purchased but the civ is also purposely putting themselves in a situation where they are going to be engaged by police officers. For instance bank, fed, store robberies, attacking an hq, committing a prison break etc...  Even if you get downed instead of lethaled, if the cops get you your still losing your loadout. If you end up getting lethaled solo with only a 5k bounty then you either put yourself into a position where the cop had no choice but to lethal you or the cop abused lethals. If the latter is the case then report the officer through the proper channels and it will be dealt with.

The real issue is that many civilians are constantly putting themselves in positions that force or heavily encourage the police officers to lethal them with the sole purpose of having their bounty cleared. There are many ways to do this including but not limited to, fighting on bank roof, ATM roof, or unreachable at bank, shooting from benches on helicopters, turning yourself in or engaging cops with 1 minute to restart, firing from unreachable locations, shooting from houses, and towers such as solar towers by airHQ chop-shop. The cop payout for lethals has already been reduced to the point that you might as well not get paid at all. Mechanics are in place that allow rebels to commit any amount of crimes they want and easily get full pardons. Yes I am aware there are ways to catch some of these criminals without the use of lethals such as using helicopters to reach players on roofs or unreachable locations but these options require an orca which is very expensive and they most often dont work either due to incompetent officers or too many heavily armed rebels. The point being that lethals should not be a way out of your crimes. Like I said earlier the entire "oh but im already losing my loadout so I deserve a pardon" makes no logical sense. 

While I dont agree with the current revive system as it is and I certainly think it could be improved, it has been the same way for a long time and it isn't a huge problem. The most simple answer to this problem in my opinion is to simply remove both the payout and the pardon from lethaling a suspect. Changing some of the rules and punishments around the use of lethals could be beneficial but I have already mention how I feel about that earlier in this post. The solutions I do not agree with are making either reduced respawn or forced respawn as this is too harsh and too many people would lose their shit if this was the case. 

This solution removes the incentive for cops to use lethals as the cops get no payout for lethaling and it is in their best interest to capture the civilian so they can process them and get some money from the ticket thus meaning lethals would be used only when they are truly necessary. This also prevents abuse from rebels using lethals as a simple way to get out of all their charges. Yes there is no perfect solution and no matter what there are going to be scenarios where people abuse mechanics but overall this solution has the least amount of issues. If it stays the way it is people are going to continue to get free pardons from lethaling. I know someone is going to talk about robocopping and while yes true robocops do exist I find that the majority of police officers are going to give you a fair chance to explain yourself and give you an appropriate ticket. The main issue is most often not the officer but that civilians either suck as RP or disagree with the ticket they receive. But despite what you think, people have different opinions on how large your ticket should be based on roleplay. Sometimes you are going to have to pay a ticket or maybe even receive jail time. That is part of being a rebel and committing crimes. Oh and dont even get me started on how much parole is abused daily. Ill save that for another time. 

that actually is a good sum up of the curent stuff and also there are some good ideas in there.

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Just now, Tom Kappa said:

Completely understanded, I have been shit on too. But we have to win some of the time too. Now think about it like this. Its a 10v10 situation at bank. Fair on both sides, Same weapons, Same gear, Same everything. Only difference? Rebels get lethals while we can't use them. Now what? We deminish our numbers until u guys still have all 10 left alive and we have no cops alive? That is hilarious. Maybe instead of complaining about the lethals, Just become a better shot and don't get shot by cops ;)

You missed one very important thing. Yes, rebels have lethals but what do cops have that they don't? Essentially unlimited resources. Unlimited spawns within a 1 min drive to either bank or fed, with free unlimited loadouts.

TRYHARD likes this
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Just now, Randy. said:

You missed one very important thing. Yes, rebels have lethals but what do cops have that they don't? Essentially unlimited resources. Unlimited spawns within a 1 min drive to either bank or fed, with free unlimited loadouts.

Then if it is a problem, Don't pick stupid fights.

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1 hour ago, SharingWriter said:

With some groups and gangs cops basically have a 4 minute timer..before they get vested

True, but effective tac-coms, common sense, and locking down points of entry can deter most attempts. Often times I see 8 officers stacked in one spot not paying attention to a parachute vest falling right in front of them. 

I remember having to process folks from Synergy, Bad Blood, Regiment, Dark Horse, and other tough gangs. You were lucky to get the suspects to the HQ, so you needed to have a decent battle buddy or at least a plan that you could get across to a handful of cops to help out. These days the APD would rather play like a bounty hunter than a cop. 

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Just now, Clint Beastwood said:

Can we reserve opinions for people that have logged into the server in the past 3 months?  A lot of you are basing this on REALLY old experiences.  I won't name any names, but, your opinions are a bit outdated and irrelevant.

Put me on blast I know you are putting me in that bucket

Just because I don't play like I use to doesn't mean I'm not making good points. Somethings never change and if people can abuse a system they will.

Rodrigo likes this
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Just now, Tom said:

They removed the 150K lethal payout because Gnashes was getting shit on by jimbo and the boys. 

25K is hardly any money split between lets say 10 cops.

If anything buff the lethal payout to more. Rebels have defibs for a reason get over it.

Ran out of likes. 

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Just now, Cobra said:

True, but effective tac-coms, common sense, and locking down points of entry can deter most attempts. Often times I see 8 officers stacked in one spot not paying attention to a parachute vest falling right in front of them. 

I remember having to process folks from Synergy, Bad Blood, Regiment, Dark Horse, and other tough gangs. You were lucky to get the suspects to the HQ, so you needed to have a decent battle buddy or at least a plan that you could get across to a handful of cops to help out. These days the APD would rather play like a bounty hunter than a cop. 

We have to initiate at the very least, Anyone can be wearing a suicide vest. Then people get mad when we go ahead and restrain them in pd. so what is the middle ground here? Restrain everyone for our own safety? 

 

 

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Just now, Clint Beastwood said:

Because that's always better than, you know, personal experience. 

I will be coming back to asylum in 2-3 days when I come back I will make sure to note down the things I see then to use that data and apply that to the update you want I will then come up with my opinion although I take a lot of breaks from asylum and whenever I come back not much changes, so I am extremely skeptical.

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Just now, Tom Kappa said:

So you don't want new players is what you are telling me? Let Kavala just be an all out shootout and then we don't get any new players. Man that makes a lot of sence

I mean, if you're going to whine about spawning in Kavala hq and getting rdmed, then clearly you aren't fit for the job.

BioHazard likes this
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Just now, Yenii said:

I mean, if you're going to whine about spawning in Kavala hq and getting rdmed, then clearly you aren't fit for the job.

Its not for the sake of me u clown. U want Kavala to be a war city that nobody can touch? So be it.

And btw, There is a reason rdm is against the rules. So u know. Shhhh. 

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7 hours ago, Clockwerk said:

Honestly the lethal pardon is just an escape for people and they just hide on a roof and stand up on purpose. I say remove the lethal pardon. Not only will it increase role play for the bounties, it will make cop and bounty hunting a lot more enjoyable cause we all know people want the big bounties. If anything just decrease the jail time for max bounties to something like 28-32 mins and im sure you'll see an increase in all factions of the game.

This man knows da way +1

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Just now, Randy. said:

You missed one very important thing. Yes, rebels have lethals but what do cops have that they don't? Essentially unlimited resources. Unlimited spawns within a 1 min drive to either bank or fed, with free unlimited loadouts.

While yes during these events there is a theoretical "endless wave" of police officers you are missing quite a few important things. The first being that the rebels get to choose the time and place of the fight. They already know how many cops are online and they have time to setup and prepare for the fight ahead of time. The second is that the rebels CHOOSE to participate during these events. Nobody makes anyone rob the fed or bank, it is up to the people initiating the robbery. They know the risk they are taking and they know the force that is likely to respond. Police officers are required to respond to the bank or fed at-least once but realistically the average cop is going to respond between 2-5 times during one of these events sometimes more depending on how bad the officer is or how long the fight lasts. Despite what some civilians may think cop load-outs are not quote on quote free. Yes if you want the base load-out then its free but almost everyone runs at-least a 4k load-out. This can be between 8-25k for sergeant and lieutenant load-outs especially if they choose police coveralls. So on average a cop will lost between 9-15k per bank/fed that they are obligated to show-up to. Yes you could use the argument "oh but cops are only required to respond to bank once, then they can leave" but lets be honest, nobody wants that. The cops want to catch the rebels and the rebels WANT to keep killing cops. Lets not also forget that statistically in order to win an engagement where the enemy is in a fortified position the odds need to be 3-1. Imagine how lob sided this can get when you add in the fact that the bank roof and Alamo feds are ridiculously easy to defend. The last point i'm going to make is the use of helicopters during a bank robbery. Lets look at 2 scenarios. First scenario, lets say there happens to be a cop that can pull an Orca. This Orca costs 100-120k and the cops are going up against rebels with guns that are much more capable of disabling or shooting out the pilot from the Orca vs the cop mx. Lets say for instance that the cops dont get shot down and actually manage to land. What happens to the Orca when the rebels win the fight. Oh yeah it gets CHOPPED. Remind me again what happens when the cops win against the rebels. Their Orca either gets impounded or left there with over a 90% chance of it safely despawning with virtually no risk of losing it unless of course another heli crashes into it in which case the cops lose their heli in that scenario aswell.

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46 minutes ago, Tom Kappa said:

Completely understanded, I have been shit on too. But we have to win some of the time too. Now think about it like this. Its a 10v10 situation at bank. Fair on both sides, Same weapons, Same gear, Same everything. Only difference? Rebels get lethals while we can't use them. Now what? We deminish our numbers until u guys still have all 10 left alive and we have no cops alive? That is hilarious. Maybe instead of complaining about the lethals, Just become a better shot and don't get shot by cops ;)

I try to avoid being toxic on the forums but are you fucking retarded? That point is genuinely degenerative. It doesn't relate to reality whatsoever. 

Firstly, cops have WAY greater numbers in most fights at bank. Secondly, become more game-aware and knowledgeable, and 10 cops with downing only VS say 5 rebels w/ 7.62(the ratio of cops:civs is usually way higher) and you can easily overcome them. Employ the right tactics at the right time and lethals aren't needed. Yes you may die a few times, the rebels are usually more skilled and have more to lose, you die you lose 3k big deal. I die, I lose 30k in gear and you pick up my 3k of Y-inventory.

I've seen both sides, I played mostly cop for over 2 years where I actually had to authorize lethals myself, and trust me I did not authorize lethals as much as these new Sgts and LT's do. Still got the job done and won most fights.

I think the problem here is a reluctance for the APD to grow a pair of balls and try new tactics and make clever plays instead of 'oh we zerged/sniped and downed him he got up lets go lethal.'

Edited by BioHazard
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Just now, Austin Rogers The Original said:

...The first being that the rebels get to choose the time and place of the fight. They already know how many cops are online and they have time to setup and prepare for the fight ahead of time. The second is that the rebels CHOOSE to participate during these events... Police officers are required to respond to the bank or fed at-least once but realistically the average cop is going to respond between 2-5 times during one of these events

I was with you until you said that most cops respond 2-5 times to an event.  The APD isn't supposed to win every battle - which you certainly can if you keep coming back.  Also, there is no requirement to stay once the "event" has ended and the rebel's payout is no longer viable to them.  I have been on lots of times where the APD continues to fight things like the bank complaining they can't get the people on the roof - even though the "bank" has been over for 20 minutes.  

Just now, BioHazard said:

Firstly, cops have WAY greater numbers in most fights at bank. 

Hasn't history taught us that a smaller, more prepared, and (most importantly) entrenched enemy can defeat a substantially larger attacking force?  The fact that there are more cops (by way of small waves of them coming back) shouldn't be an issue to people who have both fire superiority and elevation in an entrenched position.  

The cops coming back in small groups are like old school video game AI coming back trickling in (when it's not a coordinated counter offensive).  Again, the entrenched force either needs to choose to fight, or leave.  If you choose to fight and lose you simply rolled the dice and crapped out.  

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2 hours ago, [§] Alex said:

The current system of getting lethaled and pardon is not the problem at all. The real problem is cops can't stand to just lose. They would much rather get a fraction of the money and call it a win.

Removing the pardon from lethals is just silly, by not pardoning it's an indirect way of buffing how much cops make by a ton. Because if you never lose your bounty sooner or later you will get arrested and you will now have the bounty of all the past engagements. They want to be able to win every fight but still be able to arrest you for a bunch of money sooner or later. If cops want to win a engagement by way of lethals it should come to a price for taking the easy way out. If anything once cops go lethals for that engagement they should have to stay lethals the entire engagement. They shouldn't be allowed to lethal people until the odds are overwhelming and they can just zerg down the last few.

If anything not pardoning could increase the use of lethals. Because lethals will come at no loss to the cops so over time it would be better to lethal and zerg down the rest. So those who died can be caught later and you can now easily catch the few left that have built up bounties over past engagements.

They want their cake and eat it too.

How does it buff payouts? Theyre capped.... Doesnt matter if you have 200k or 4 million.

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Just now, HotWings said:

How does it buff payouts? Theyre capped.... Doesnt matter if you have 200k or 4 million.

Is everyone that is arrested at a capped bounty? Because most rebels get lethaled a few time between the the last time they were arrested and the current. It's rare that I get arrested when I have a bounty over 100k. The cap keeps it in check, but the amount of people that will get arrested at max payout will go up. 

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Just now, [§] Alex said:

Is everyone that is arrested at a capped bounty? Because most rebels get lethaled a few time between the the last time they were arrested and the current. It's rare that I get arrested when I have a bounty over 100k. The cap keeps it in check, but the amount of people that will get arrested at max payout will go up. 

Most rebels purposely get lethaled to remove their bounty.  The only real issue here is that you cant exploit that system anymore for free pardons AND keep your loadouts.

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Just now, HotWings said:

Most rebels purposely get lethaled to remove their bounty.  The only real issue here is that you cant exploit that system anymore for free pardons AND keep your loadouts.

This

Just now, BioHazard said:

I try to avoid being toxic on the forums but are you fucking retarded? That point is genuinely degenerative. It doesn't relate to reality whatsoever. 

Firstly, cops have WAY greater numbers in most fights at bank. Secondly, become more game-aware and knowledgeable, and 10 cops with downing only VS say 5 rebels w/ 7.62(the ratio of cops:civs is usually way higher) and you can easily overcome them. Employ the right tactics at the right time and lethals aren't needed. Yes you may die a few times, the rebels are usually more skilled and have more to lose, you die you lose 3k big deal. I die, I lose 30k in gear and you pick up my 3k of Y-inventory.

I've seen both sides, I played mostly cop for over 2 years where I actually had to authorize lethals myself, and trust me I did not authorize lethals as much as these new Sgts and LT's do. Still got the job done and won most fights.

I think the problem here is a reluctance for the APD to grow a pair of balls and try new tactics and make clever plays instead of 'oh we zerged/sniped and downed him he got up lets go lethal.'

Ur joking right? So we down 2-3 rebels, Now what? We get shot when we go to restrain or do something about it. Then what do u expect us to do? Has nothing with growing balls. Has to do with the fact that this system is being abused and has to be fixed in some sort of way

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9 hours ago, Jamal said:

are you fucking mental "hey we use lethals too much so lets just make it so that we can lethal them then have another cop waiting in a town to down and robocop them" you can't have the cake and eat it too.

I have a good idea lets make it so that cops can only give pardons when they process someone isn't that a great idea guys?

Oh but then you would actually have to talk and RP with the cops to get a bounty reduced or pardoned instead of just sitting and waiting to be lethaled by cops and then complain about it when they dont use downing. Stop crying and complaining, we all know you dont play enough nor do you care to bring something new to the Asylum servers to try. 

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@bamf @Gnashes Is it possible to make SWAT (or maybe just the MK1 aka LT/SWAT) downing rounds last longer? This way at events like fed,bank, prison they can down a rebel for a longer time and have better chances to down and push up. It could ofcourse be 'countered'  by rebels using adrenaline shots more.

I'm just saying if im doing a bank and i manage to down two on roof, before people actually reach the roof they're up again. It would make lethals less necessary in my opinion.

BlackShot likes this
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Just now, Jbdragon said:

Oh but then you would actually have to talk and RP with the cops to get a bounty reduced or pardoned instead of just sitting and waiting to be lethaled by cops and then complain about it when they dont use downing. Stop crying and complaining, we all know you dont play enough nor do you care to bring something new to the Asylum servers to try. 

this may have come off to hostile towards the apd I do not mean this in a negative way but from my experience (3 years of asylum) has taught me that this community can be abusive of anything we can get our hands on. Both ends abuse things and I can understand that rebels abuse the unreachable to get an easy pardon, even though I haven't played recently there has been one thing that has remained consistent in my time here is the lack of rp most of the lower apd members give (and some higher ups) tell me that isn't the truth.

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