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Quick poll related to APD and lethals


Quick poll related to APD and lethals  

237 members have voted

  1. 1. Would you rather:

    • Leave lethal payouts the way they are currently
    • Remove payout upon lethal by an APD member, and remove the ability to be revived (except by an APD member)
    • Remove the payout upon lethal by an APD member, and decrease the timer to force a respawn for the killed player


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There has been lots of input in the patch notes as of late regarding the APD's use of lethal ammunition.  We can change things (or not), but if we change something it needs to remain balanced.  As it is now, if a cop uses lethal ammunition on a wanted player they still receive pay - just a lot less than if they down and jail the wanted player.  

Let me know your thoughts after you vote.  

Edit:  If the lethal payout gets removed, so does the pardon.  

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Out of those 3 options, leave it as is.

In my experience, cops lethal out of being salty / gang association. In Drunk Squad, we've been lethal'd even when outnumbered, instantly lethal'd at banks from the very beginning, or lethal'd because cops had to respawn more than 2 times to come fight us. For me, I don't see it as a money thing, it's a tilt-thing.

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I haven't thought about it and this is just an off-the-cuff idea - if there is no payout for an APD member killing a suspect, take out the pardon from it as well.

In role play aspects, this would not make sense, but would at least prevent "free pardons" by barricading yourself inside a locked home or putting yourself in an unreachable location and forcing the officers to kill you.

Just read the edit. Cool.

Edit: So I think there could be a misconception that officers use lethal ammunition for the quick payouts. The payouts for using lethal ammunition are abysmal as they are currently, which is good because you should not be rewarded, as an APD officer, for killing suspects. Your job is to bring them in and question/process them (where possible).

It wouldn't be a huge change on the cop side of things, only the civilians.

Out of curiosity though, why not just remove the payouts and pardons? Why is it between those two options, being able to only allow a revive from an APD officer or reducing the force respawn timer?

Thanks.

Edited by Samperino
Kev 23 likes this
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Just now, Maaqs said:

Out of those 3 options, leave it as is.

In my experience, cops lethal out of being salty / gang association. In Drunk Squad, we've been lethal'd even when outnumbered, instantly lethal'd at banks from the very beginning, or lethal'd because cops had to respawn more than 2 times to come fight us. For me, I don't see it as a money thing, it's a tilt-thing.

yea,ive had a few even tell me they die a few times balls to the wall just so our bounty goes up more,i dont think issue lies with mechanic it self.

Maaqs likes this
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Just now, Sean That Irish Guy said:

Leave the payout as is but make the actual cop ruling of lethals more strict because as of right now everyone and their mother just goes lethal the second they see more than 2 people in a fight or a higher up does it just because he can and nothing can happen to him. 

 

I abuse them as much as the next guy and its just way to easy to call lethals in situations they arnt warranted. Should just make it that only SGT+ can call lethals with the exceptions of Heli Bench snipers, vehicle gunners, and unreachable. 

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10 hours ago, Tyrese said:

Cops shouldn't get paid for lethaling, it should not pardon those who are lethaled. It would make rebel a lot better. 

Rofl.....so rebels lose their loadout a chance to get revived and still get a chance to get robocopped or bounty hunted upon respawning. Yeah sounds like a good plan if you want to kill rebel life even more. 

Edited by Frizzy
Buck, Space, Paul Blart and 1 other like this
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Just now, Hanzo/Dirty Scrubz said:

Good joke.

No a good joke is the cops showing up out numbering rebels and going instant lethals because of your name, not getting pardoned, and spawning in a town to getting bounty hunted before you can get a car. A long time ago it would be so rare to catch a lethal, you would put people on the fed domes so they could get lethal'd. Before an unreachable place would be somewhere only reachable by heli, but now if you are on the bank roof it's instant lethals.

If anything keep it the same but make it so the pardon doesn't happen until they respawn and the cops don't get paid until they respawn. 

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The whole reason the lethal payouts were reduced in the past was to lessen the incentive for police officers to lethal civilians because they felt they were being overused. While I feel that the current lethal rules are good the way they are in terms of when officers can automatically lethal such as unreachable locations, shooting from benches, 1 minute to restart etc... I do feel that there are many situations where lethal force is used when it should not. Misuse of lethals should be a more severe punishment and or the ability to vote for lethals should be only Sgt+ or alternatively only corporals voting when no Sgt+ is on the server. 

On the topic of civilians losing their loadouts when being lethaled, I find that entire argument complete nonsense. When you buy a loadout you are taking the risk that you will lose the loadout when you lose the fight. Once you get into a fight regardless of who you are fighting whether it be a civilan, bounty hunter, or police officer you losing the fight is the same outcome. You losing your loadout. The fact that you "got lethaled" by a cop has nothing to do with the fact that you are losing your loadout. Most of the time not only are you taking the risk of using the loadout you purchased but the civ is also purposely putting themselves in a situation where they are going to be engaged by police officers. For instance bank, fed, store robberies, attacking an hq, committing a prison break etc...  Even if you get downed instead of lethaled, if the cops get you your still losing your loadout. If you end up getting lethaled solo with only a 5k bounty then you either put yourself into a position where the cop had no choice but to lethal you or the cop abused lethals. If the latter is the case then report the officer through the proper channels and it will be dealt with.

The real issue is that many civilians are constantly putting themselves in positions that force or heavily encourage the police officers to lethal them with the sole purpose of having their bounty cleared. There are many ways to do this including but not limited to, fighting on bank roof, ATM roof, or unreachable at bank, shooting from benches on helicopters, turning yourself in or engaging cops with 1 minute to restart, firing from unreachable locations, shooting from houses, and towers such as solar towers by airHQ chop-shop. The cop payout for lethals has already been reduced to the point that you might as well not get paid at all. Mechanics are in place that allow rebels to commit any amount of crimes they want and easily get full pardons. Yes I am aware there are ways to catch some of these criminals without the use of lethals such as using helicopters to reach players on roofs or unreachable locations but these options require an orca which is very expensive and they most often dont work either due to incompetent officers or too many heavily armed rebels. The point being that lethals should not be a way out of your crimes. Like I said earlier the entire "oh but im already losing my loadout so I deserve a pardon" makes no logical sense. 

While I dont agree with the current revive system as it is and I certainly think it could be improved, it has been the same way for a long time and it isn't a huge problem. The most simple answer to this problem in my opinion is to simply remove both the payout and the pardon from lethaling a suspect. Changing some of the rules and punishments around the use of lethals could be beneficial but I have already mention how I feel about that earlier in this post. The solutions I do not agree with are making either reduced respawn or forced respawn as this is too harsh and too many people would lose their shit if this was the case. 

This solution removes the incentive for cops to use lethals as the cops get no payout for lethaling and it is in their best interest to capture the civilian so they can process them and get some money from the ticket thus meaning lethals would be used only when they are truly necessary. This also prevents abuse from rebels using lethals as a simple way to get out of all their charges. Yes there is no perfect solution and no matter what there are going to be scenarios where people abuse mechanics but overall this solution has the least amount of issues. If it stays the way it is people are going to continue to get free pardons from lethaling. I know someone is going to talk about robocopping and while yes true robocops do exist I find that the majority of police officers are going to give you a fair chance to explain yourself and give you an appropriate ticket. The main issue is most often not the officer but that civilians either suck as RP or disagree with the ticket they receive. But despite what you think, people have different opinions on how large your ticket should be based on roleplay. Sometimes you are going to have to pay a ticket or maybe even receive jail time. That is part of being a rebel and committing crimes. Oh and dont even get me started on how much parole is abused daily. Ill save that for another time. 

Edited by Austin Rogers The Original
LUCKY713, Patato, Nick and 4 others like this
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Just now, Austin Rogers The Original said:

The whole reason the lethal payouts were reduced in the past was to lessen the incentive for police officers to lethal civilians because they felt they were being overused. While I feel that the current lethal rules are good the way they are in terms of when officers can automatically lethal such as unreachable locations, shooting from benches, 1 minute to restart etc... I do feel that there are many situations where lethal force is used when it should not. Misuse of lethals should be a more severe punishment and or the ability to vote for lethals should be only Sgt+ or alternatively only corporals voting when no Sgt+ is on the server. 

On the topic of civilians losing their loadouts when being lethaled, I find that entire argument complete nonsense. When you buy a loadout you are taking the risk that you will lose the loadout when you lose the fight. Once you get into a fight regardless of who you are fighting whether it be a civilan, bounty hunter, or police officer you losing the fight is the same outcome. You losing your loadout. The fact that you "got lethaled" by a cop has nothing to do with the fact that you are losing your loadout. Most of the time not only are you taking the risk of using the loadout you purchased but the civ is also purposely putting themselves in a situation where they are going to be engaged by police officers. For instance bank, fed, store robberies, attacking an hq, committing a prison break etc...  Even if you get downed instead of lethaled, if the cops get you your still losing your loadout. If you end up getting lethaled solo with only a 5k bounty then you either put yourself into a position where the cop had no choice but to lethal you or the cop abused lethals. If the latter is the case then report the officer through the proper channels and it will be dealt with.

The real issue is that many civilians are constantly putting themselves in positions that force or heavily encourage the police officers to lethal them with the sole purpose of having their bounty cleared. There are many ways to do this including but not limited to, fighting on bank roof, ATM roof, or unreachable at bank, shooting from benches on helicopters, turning yourself in or engaging cops with 1 minute to restart, firing from unreachable locations, shooting from houses, and towers such as solar towers by airHQ chop-shop. The cop payout for lethals has already been reduced to the point that you might as well not get paid at all. Mechanics are in place that allow rebels to commit any amount of crimes they want and easily get full pardons. Yes I am aware there are ways to catch some of these criminals without the use of lethals such as using helicopters to reach players on roofs or unreachable locations but these options require an orca which is very expensive and they most often dont work either due to incompetent officers or too many heavily armed rebels. The point being that lethals should not be a way out of your crimes. Like I said earlier the entire "oh but im already losing my loadout so I deserve a pardon" makes no logical sense. 

While I dont agree with the current revive system as it is and I certainly think it could be improved, it has been the same way for a long time and it isn't a huge problem. The most simple answer to this problem in my opinion is to simply remove both the payout and the pardon from lethaling a suspect. Changing some of the rules and punishments around the use of lethals could be beneficial but I have already mention how I feel about that earlier in this post. The solutions I do not agree with are making either reduced respawn or forced respawn as this is too harsh and too many people would lose their shit if this was the case. 

This solution removes the incentive for cops to use lethals as the cops get no payout for lethaling and it is in their best interest to capture the civilian so they can process them and get some money from the ticket thus meaning lethals would be used only when they are truly necessary. This also prevents abuse from rebels using lethals as a simple way to get out of all their charges. Yes there is no perfect solution and no matter what there are going to be scenarios where people abuse mechanics but overall this solution has the least amount of issues. If it stays the way it is people are going to continue to get free pardons from lethaling. I know someone is going to talk about robocopping and while yes true robocops do exist I find that the majority of police officers are going to give you a fair chance to explain yourself and give you an appropriate ticket. The main issue is most often not the officer but that civilians either suck as RP or disagree with the ticket they receive. But despite what you think, people have different opinions on how large your ticket should be based on roleplay. Sometimes you are going to have to pay a ticket or maybe even receive jail time. That is part of being a rebel and committing crimes. Oh and dont even get me started on how much parole is abused daily. Ill save that for another time. 

10/10 would not read again

TRYHARD, Donald, Term and 3 others like this
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The second option would be ridiculous, part of the reason asylum still has the population and loyal players that it has is defibs. I promise you, if you nerf that any further then you have over the years. Asylums players are loyal to the community but only to a point. No one has asked for this from what I seen and if you implement that you will shovel that last bit of dirt to fill up Asylums grave.

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Honestly the lethal pardon is just an escape for people and they just hide on a roof and stand up on purpose. I say remove the lethal pardon. Not only will it increase role play for the bounties, it will make cop and bounty hunting a lot more enjoyable cause we all know people want the big bounties. If anything just decrease the jail time for max bounties to something like 28-32 mins and im sure you'll see an increase in all factions of the game.

Sp0on, Nick, Niels and 13 others like this
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