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Talents / Prestige / Infamy


Jesse

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So we're going to be changing up some of the talents/prestige/infamy and how it works and is displayed to the players. Here are some questions I have regarding the CURRENT system on live Asylum.

  • What are some things you feel works well and is beneficial?
  • What do you feel could be changed to make the systems more user friendly?
  • What do you feel doesn't work well?
  • What would you change about the current systems?

Please be as specific as possible in your answers to provide the best feedback and to help expedite the process of developing these features.

Thanks,
Jesse

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Talents

  • Some new talents that do anything really would be great, because right now rebels have a set of 29 talents they learn, bounty hunters have 29 talents and it's pretty much common knowledge what talents you need to get maximal gain. Maybe more talents that provide discounts/vehicle skins. When the server is at tier 3, having 35 talents, I generally end up with a bunch of spare ones.

Infamy

  • Excess infamy - 
  • Adding a new infamy tree would be beneficial, since the current 2 are kinda generic and don't really add anything to gameplay, they're just bonuses. A good idea I saw is here
  • An infamy talent allowing rebels to gear up (in a similar way to how cops can) would be a good idea for a new addition.
  • Maybe add things like Armour stacking, vests/speed bombs as infamy things (or to honor for bounty hunters) - since right now they use up civilian talent points and they're more of a rebel-centered thing.
  • Infamy needs to be buffed - it takes a long time to gain and the only efficient way of gaining it is running meth, selling gold bars or chopping vehicles. Even then, the amount you gain is relatively small in comparison to the speed you can advance through the honor talents in bounty hunter. Maybe add an infamy bonus for killing cops (or even killing in general) and some other ways to gain.
  • Infamy for crafting at black market if this isn't already a thing
  • An infamy talent that allows you to evade governor taxes might also be a good idea??
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I like having cheaper load outs with the infamy perk that gives discount.  Also I like the one that gives more money when selling illegal items.  I'd say make things cheaper, it just takes way too much grinding and points to get the infamy.  I like the defib / blood bag faster ones too but like I said it takes way too long to get them.  Of course we can switch them out like talents but still takes too long.

Edited by Wop
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I did an assassin contract that said time was worth $50,000 and when I turned it in only received something around $15,000. It's decieving to have infamy talents that give you the full amount only after unlocking.

Also, puting out assassin contracts are expensive. It would be nice to have autonomous contracts being put out on people who 'deserve it'.

       For example, officer who stops drill at bank, stops prison break.

      A 1% chance to become targeted by a contract after killing another rebel.

 

       

 

Edited by justi
.
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@Jesse

-Current number of talents required to be a BH: 8.

-Current number of talents require to be a rebel: 2.  (Rebel + Marksman). The rest of the rebel talents are optional (ghillie suits, sui vests) where I would say the BH ones are pretty much mandatory. Limiting yourself to 2 bounties / 50k/100k cap is too restrictive.

It just feels awful having to sink 8 out of 29 talents to be a BH along with certain other talents being mandatory (6 medical, mechanic/grease monkey to spawn vehicles with repair kits, 2 to see group/gang members on map, potentially 4 if you run drugs, and then the numerous vehicle ones to use the Hatch Sport (unrestricted), box truck + (commercial), and private/commercial pilot if you want to fly. These just seem too excessive IMO and way too specific eating away talent points. I feel very limited in "spare talents" compared to when I go Rebel.

Don't allow a "re-gear" option for rebels or BHs. Rebel is meant  to be a dangerous area for rebels to gear up.  The care-bear level would be over 9000 if I could just click a button at rebel and not have to worry about getting shot with 25-30k on me.  Also, the assassin tree in Infamy seems wasted. It was a thing for maybe a week or two when it came out, but nowadays I never see contracts or hear about them. I don't think a single person in DS has put points into it.

Edited by Maaqs
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Infamy: My personal opinion is the drug gathering speed talents are too bad, either 1) make it so gathering speed is increased like the fuck you pay me one so maybe 5%-15%-25% and thats for all drugs, or 2) remove it and make processing speed infamy talents. Also irl some criminals have informants just like cops. Why not add "cop" pings when a cop enters an illegal area or something of that nature. 

Regular talents: Add more legal talents. Add mining speed talents, processing speed talents ect. 

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1 hour ago, Lucien said:

 

  • Master combat medic
    • I don't know about having perks be rank-restricted in their effects
      • If the perk had some use for those less than sgt+ but just had bonus effects for sgt+ it would be much more useful
 

Master combat medic is the most powerful perk in the entire prestige tree. If it was not rank restricted it would simply be broken. The power to sit in cover and infinitely revive people is insane. I don't really know how you could give this perk out partially. It is just so powerful. As is, the fact that generally there will not be four Sergeants and/or Lieutenants on medic is probably the only reason it isn't completely broken.

1 hour ago, Lucien said:
  • Presitige grinding: When I got corporal, I though it would take forever to earn prestige. However, grinding out time on cop, I realize it is actually fairly balanced for the time you put into it. It obviously is quicked to get than, say, bounty hunter honor, but prestige perks are more expensive and there are a lot more of them 
1

I agree, it really is balanced how obtaining and using prestige works!

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2 hours ago, Lucien said:
  • Master combat medic
    • I don't know about having perks be rank-restricted in their effects
      • If the perk had some use for those less than sgt+ but just had bonus effects for sgt+ it would be much more useful

 

I mean I'm not sure how that would work unless it was made to be 

 

Master Combat Medic

 - Adrenaline shots are always available

- Surpasses the 5 min revive cooldown (Sgt+)

 

but short of adding a new benefit to the perk, nothing can be done, Cpls will never receive something even half as powerful as unlimited revives  

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16 minutes ago, •ÐŠ• Randy said:

honestly i wish cpls could get UC hunters, make em like 150-200k or something crazy so they dont get used often, its kind of impossible to push prisons without armor and if no higherups are on its really annoying. 

Im willing to bet if 8 cops zerged across all in different cars with one decent hard aimer you are going to be able to get much further then your normally would. The more cars that come across at the same time the better. You will be baiting more peaks for your hard aimer. If he is even a half decent shot you should get at least 2 picks.

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5 hours ago, Maaqs said:

Don't allow a "re-gear" option for rebels or BHs. Rebel is meant  to be a dangerous area for rebels to gear up.  The care-bear level would be over 9000 if I could just click a button at rebel and not have to worry about getting shot with 25-30k on me.  Also, the assassin tree in Infamy seems wasted. It was a thing for maybe a week or two when it came out, but nowadays I never see contracts or hear about them. I don't think a single person in DS has put points into it.

it would take time like 10 to 20 secs and you would need to have the money on hand all its doing for you is giving you your last loadout so you dont have to find it all in the shop menu

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3 hours ago, Lucien said:

The problem with that though is you expect cops to work together - tell someone to be your hard aimer at a prison odds are they won't get it and half the cops that are supposed to be zerging push go play sniper elite

If they have yet to properly execute the strategy then they haven't really tried it. I say this because most cops will say "we've tried that."

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I think the whole civ tree needs to be reworked.  Once you get max talents switching between bounty hunter/rebel/drugs is nothing but a hassle.  The cost is negligible and people do it on the fly.  Remove a bunch of the useless stuff, condense down all the trees, and make it where we do not have to switch simply for quality of life.  Add some talents for the new evidence locker section.  

Bounty hunter for sure should be much less items...

As far as the infamy tree you can definitely get rid of the assassin side.  No one uses it, and assassination contracts are only a meme against your friends.  Condense the whole tree down a lot, and as has been said give some more realistic infamy perks for all of the illegal activities.  Just prop everything up.  

For the cop talent tree, it can for sure use some pruning.  Condense the vehicle and traffic control stuff down a bit, and make it just useable.  Again all cops do is buy up a ton of vehicles, and then drop the talents for other ones.  It is cheap and doable, but just a pain in the ass to buy a damned car.  

I am pretty ok with the prestige tree for cops.

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Less parent talents would be nice.  For instance, you should not have to spec into fishing for shipwrecks and also it would be nice to only have to spec into the drugs that you actually want to run instead of them all.  More ways to farm/less grindy infamy would be a nice quality of life update.  Prestige is 100% useless unless you care about a stupid title but I dunno how to really fix that.

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1 minute ago, Elaiscancer said:

Less parent talents would be nice.  For instance, you should not have to spec into fishing for shipwrecks and also it would be nice to only have to spec into the drugs that you actually want to run instead of them all.  More ways to farm/less grindy infamy would be a nice quality of life update.  Prestige is 100% useless unless you care about a stupid title but I dunno how to really fix that.

i believe he means cop prestige for cpl+

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9 hours ago, Lucien said:

Mostly good ideas, except for the armour stacking idea

I have some ideas for honor

Honor

  • I feel master crusader is very underpowered compared to apex predator
    • Master crusader: Automatically set the game waypoint to the center of the circle of a tracked target. Access to Skip Tracer Jail Facility.
      • Who cares about the waypoint
      • You get extra money but afaik it can't go over the hard cap (I could be wrong)
      • It counts as 2 arrests towards the bh achievements (Bug?)
    • Apex Predator: Access to Advanced Interrogation to strip all gear from you bounty. Allows pickpocketing and disarming to be used against anyone. Ability to purchase lethal 6.5 magazines from Skip Tracer.
      • Ez loadouts if you have a skiptracer house. As a bounty hunter catching a guy with a full loadout and no friends is a better reward then just the extra money. You can steal rpgs/lmgs/grenades/any of their inventory. Only disadvantage is if they drop a 7.62 a friend has to pick it up or you have to switch talents
      • Pickpocket and disarm - steal anyone's (except cop's) y inventory and take anyone's pistol and nades
        • Need medical? rob a medic 
        • Is there an undercover corporal throwing 30 flashes onto bank roof? Congrats you now have 30 flashbangs
        • LT's running around with 4-Fives in kavala? Im sure someone would want to buy one or smth idfk
      • Lethal mags - Congrats you can just go to end game activities (fed/banks/prison/cartels) without bogging down your team by being able to lethal
  • Other than that, the talents for each tree are actually really thought out and fit well together
  • Honor grinding is perfectly reasonable in terms of the rate of honor you get per bounty (Bounty/50 or 100)
  • Change some talents around - having seperate talents when we aren't on community goals eats so many talent points. Some of these could easily be combined with others

Presitige

  • Some perks do not function properly/have incorrect descriptions
    • For example, in the undercover tree
      • Painkillers are always not consume when you have the talent, instead of it being a chance
      • The undercover offroad talent says you can get undercover jeeps in the description, which is incorrect
  • Some perks are barely used and should be combined with other perks
    • Undercover mohawks
      • I've never seen someone use one ever
      • It would be better to have undercover mohawks grouped into the orca talent
  • Master combat medic
    • I don't know about having perks be rank-restricted in their effects
      • If the perk had some use for those less than sgt+ but just had bonus effects for sgt+ it would be much more useful
  • Presitige grinding: When I got corporal, I though it would take forever to earn prestige. However, grinding out time on cop, I realize it is actually fairly balanced for the time you put into it. It obviously is quicked to get than, say, bounty hunter honor, but prestige perks are more expensive and there are a lot more of them

Normal Talents

  • In the normal talent tree, a lot of talents could be repurposed now that there are the advanced talent trees. For example, why not change the drug processing perks to infamy talents? Get rid of some barely used talents such as being able to recieve taxi requests. Have helis just spawn with parachutes all the time instead of needing a talent for it
  • The normal talent tree is old and could use some rethinking - now that there are more talents, we should either have a higher amount of possible points or just have talents be condensed down

u do know that apex definitely shouldnt be nerfed or changed  it takes long hours of grinding straight bounties and u have to wait for them unlike rebel just sell drugs anytime u want 

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17 hours ago, Lucien said:

I didn't say apex predator should be nerfed... saying something is underpowered means it should be buffed, not that its counterpart should be nerfed...

i knew u was gonna say that i just worded it wrong it made it look as if it was more overpowered and the devs may think that it should be changed. but yes mastercrusader needs something different like a 100% increase or 75 because its just bare bones at this point just straight cash honestly id like to see maybe a new gun with that perk even like a spar or something on the same lines as the mx 

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I would suggest that the Assassin tree gets a bit of a change. Here's how I think it should work.

Players with bounties over a certain amount, say 100k get contracts put out on their head randomly by the server, much like the APB system. There could be a "tier" system to this, meaning that if the bounty is 150k or higher the amount of money the contract is worth is increased. If no one completes the contract within an hour or a restart(whatever amount of time) then it goes to someone else. Obviously this could be exploitable but I imagine that could get worked out. I don't think you should lose your bounty upon a contract being completed on you, however I do think this would bring more use to the tree, as of right now it's entirely obsolete.

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On 4/11/2019 at 1:51 PM, Maaqs said:

@Jesse

-Current number of talents required to be a BH: 8.

-Current number of talents require to be a rebel: 2.  (Rebel + Marksman). The rest of the rebel talents are optional (ghillie suits, sui vests) where I would say the BH ones are pretty much mandatory. Limiting yourself to 2 bounties / 50k/100k cap is too restrictive.

It just feels awful having to sink 8 out of 29 talents to be a BH along with certain other talents being mandatory (6 medical, mechanic/grease monkey to spawn vehicles with repair kits, 2 to see group/gang members on map, potentially 4 if you run drugs, and then the numerous vehicle ones to use the Hatch Sport (unrestricted), box truck + (commercial), and private/commercial pilot if you want to fly. These just seem too excessive IMO and way too specific eating away talent points. I feel very limited in "spare talents" compared to when I go Rebel.

Don't allow a "re-gear" option for rebels or BHs. Rebel is meant  to be a dangerous area for rebels to gear up.  The care-bear level would be over 9000 if I could just click a button at rebel and not have to worry about getting shot with 25-30k on me.  Also, the assassin tree in Infamy seems wasted. It was a thing for maybe a week or two when it came out, but nowadays I never see contracts or hear about them. I don't think a single person in DS has put points into it.

As far as the talents go, you forgot ranking rebel which is pretty commonly used but still doesn't match the amount needed to be a complete bounty hunter. And regarding the regear option, what if it made you pull out cash to regear and took 2 minutes? Seems pretty fair, just don't need to scroll as much.

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On 4/11/2019 at 1:01 PM, Michael L said:

Talents

  • Some new talents that do anything really would be great, because right now rebels have a set of 29 talents they learn, bounty hunters have 29 talents and it's pretty much common knowledge what talents you need to get maximal gain. Maybe more talents that provide discounts/vehicle skins. When the server is at tier 3, having 35 talents, I generally end up with a bunch of spare ones.

Infamy

  • Excess infamy - 
  • Adding a new infamy tree would be beneficial, since the current 2 are kinda generic and don't really add anything to gameplay, they're just bonuses. A good idea I saw is here
  • An infamy talent allowing rebels to gear up (in a similar way to how cops can) would be a good idea for a new addition.
  • Maybe add things like Armour stacking, vests/speed bombs as infamy things (or to honor for bounty hunters) - since right now they use up civilian talent points and they're more of a rebel-centered thing.
  • Infamy needs to be buffed - it takes a long time to gain and the only efficient way of gaining it is running meth, selling gold bars or chopping vehicles. Even then, the amount you gain is relatively small in comparison to the speed you can advance through the honor talents in bounty hunter. Maybe add an infamy bonus for killing cops (or even killing in general) and some other ways to gain.
  • Infamy for crafting at black market if this isn't already a thing
  • An infamy talent that allows you to evade governor taxes might also be a good idea??

Welp I don't think excess infamy is a problem for @Crossfade anymore :P

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On 4/14/2019 at 7:33 AM, Kareem Kinte said:

As far as the talents go, you forgot ranking rebel which is pretty commonly used but still doesn't match the amount needed to be a complete bounty hunter. And regarding the regear option, what if it made you pull out cash to regear and took 2 minutes? Seems pretty fair, just don't need to scroll as much.

I can buy all my shit in way less than two minutes...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Doesn't take long to buy a Rook...

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 Back around 6.0 there was a bug that many others and I thought was a great feature that could be added back to the servers. It was the ability to buy houses with containments of the previous owners virtual storage. When the owner of the house either sold their home, was banned permanently from the server, or had not played on the server for months there previous storage would remain in the house for the next owner to find in there new home. For me it was the servers own unique way of gambling and gave me a sense of enjoyment when buying houses. In a way it could be a way of a money sink for the server so people don't have vasts amounts of money. I understand the issue that patched the update which was 1. that it was a bug 2. That when people were banned permanently for duping, many items that were duped would remain in the house. There is a solution though if the admins wipe the players house if they were banned for that reason. This is a great feature that the player base would love to have back. For the players you can either strike gold in the house you bought or get nothing. That's the luck of the draw!

@Jesse @Mitch (IFRIT)

Edited by Walt
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1 hour ago, Walt said:

 Back around 6.0 there was a bug that many others and I thought was a great feature that could be added back to the servers. It was the ability to buy houses with containments of the previous owners virtual storage. When the owner of the house either sold their home, was banned permanently from the server, or had not played on the server for months there previous storage would remain in the house for the next owner to find in there new home. For me it was the servers own unique way of gambling and gave me a sense of enjoyment when buying houses. In a way it could be a way of a money sink for the server so people don't have vasts amounts of money. I understand the issue that patched the update which was 1. that it was a bug 2. That when people were banned permanently for duping, many items that were duped would remain in the house. There is a solution though if the admins wipe the players house if they were banned for that reason. This is a great feature that the player base would love to have back. For the players you can either strike gold in the house you bought or get nothing. That's the luck of the draw!

@Jesse @Mitch (IFRIT)

101% +1 this bad boy.

I always have to go to the seller with a HEMTT box and simply take the things from his crates and put them into my HEMTT, then buy the house, buy (3,2,1) crates (wasting money tbh) and just put the stuff back. Essentially the same thing regardless. But in Walt's case, I enjoyed doing this as well. Seeing houses on the market are rare, but seeing houses with crates full of meth or guns is even more rare. There was no real need except wiping of people who exploited guns and what not, but just wipe their crates using the new housing crate system in progress?

Edited by Ron Johnson
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2 hours ago, Walt said:

 Back around 6.0 there was a bug that many others and I thought was a great feature that could be added back to the servers. It was the ability to buy houses with containments of the previous owners virtual storage. When the owner of the house either sold their home, was banned permanently from the server, or had not played on the server for months there previous storage would remain in the house for the next owner to find in there new home. For me it was the servers own unique way of gambling and gave me a sense of enjoyment when buying houses. In a way it could be a way of a money sink for the server so people don't have vasts amounts of money. I understand the issue that patched the update which was 1. that it was a bug 2. That when people were banned permanently for duping, many items that were duped would remain in the house. There is a solution though if the admins wipe the players house if they were banned for that reason. This is a great feature that the player base would love to have back. For the players you can either strike gold in the house you bought or get nothing. That's the luck of the draw!

@Jesse @Mitch (IFRIT)

Persistent storage has been talked about for the future plans. I'm not totally sure on what exact route it will take. But it's well known that the community enjoyed it.

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