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Sean That Irish Guy

Standards that Captains are held too.

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Right now Captains, retired captains and captains who are admins, are not being held accountable for the things they do and its been getting increasingly worse over the past few weeks. Ive seen them down and restrain people who are right beside them at prisons, banks feds and after a few minutes just un-restrain and execute them because they dont wanna get them brought back to HQ, spawn in rebel vehicles for themselves to attack prisons, banks and feds, countless times where they just lethal people with or without guns when they please and if reported it will be boiled down to "They are a higher up and they made there own decision during the situation" , ignoring APD procedures like just sending people to jail, not letting people explain etc. Now i know some idiots deserve to get sent but some dont and if anyone below their rank done that they would be penalized for it. All this stated above has brought a lot of disinterest on the server from what ive seen lately.

I understand that there is only a limited amount of Captains but i feel that they need to be held to a much higher standard considering the postilion they are in, especially retired Captains and Captains who are admins, and i honestly dont think its too much to ask for. Now this isnt a dig at the higher ups, even tho the facts above seem very direct, but more of an example of what i feel things need to steer away from. This imo is the last issue on the server besides the obvious crashing and what not to be addressed.

I know this thread is probably gonna light up like a fucking Christmas tree but try keep what you post as necessary as possible and of course Captain and Chief of Police input is needed the most as this is all coming from only one side.

Edited by Sean That Irish Guy

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4 minutes ago, TheCrestedPenguin said:

I mean I've heard plenty of things about admins being "abusive" in the same manor you're describing what is up with that?

If an admin is abusing their powers (using their powers to their advantage, not using them to fix issues) then make a report.... typically most admins are careful about what they do in game from what I have seen.... @Mitch (IFRIT) Would beat us if we abuse our powers/make ourselves have an unfair advantage

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13 minutes ago, Clint Beastwood said:

We have demoted Retired and current Captains before....

 

Did something change?

No idea but like i stated above they pretty much go around doing as they please as of recent it seems, no idea what has changed to make them do that but they've always kinda "done what they want when they want" to an extent because of there rank and then that bleeds down through the other ranks below them over time. I know what ive said above seems like just a rant but shit like that has genuinely been happening the past weeks.

 

9 minutes ago, TheCrestedPenguin said:

I mean I've heard plenty of things about admins being "abusive" in the same manor you're describing what is up with that?

Hearing and seeing are on two complete opposite ends of the spectrum. If an admins abuses, report it?

 

Just now, danile666 said:

Captains reviewing captains IA's?

 

Seems like there's no incentive there. 

From what i understand its the CoP who does that, could be wrong, but if not thats not the way to go about it. Owners should deal with issues like that or make a position that does due to the fact that the APD has a massive role on the server.

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7 minutes ago, Jake said:

If an admin is abusing their powers (using their powers to their advantage, not using them to fix issues) then make a report.... typically most admins are careful about what they do in game from what I have seen.... @Mitch (IFRIT) Would beat us if we abuse our powers/make ourselves have an unfair advantage

ok so one time I was just strolling about pyrgos having fun and an admin that I wont name (hes a beaner Mexican) tpd me 5km up and I fell to my death. Would this be abusive admin?

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@Clint Beastwood The point im trying to make with this post is to try and make the higher ups ie Captains follow the guideline that they enforce on those below them and i cant see any other way for that to happen other than having yourself step in to do so as they generally govern themselves, I dont think its much to ask really? with Asylum V2 around the corner the only other issue is this so why not knock it out beforehand? 

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8 minutes ago, Sean That Irish Guy said:

@Clint Beastwood The point im trying to make with this post is to try and make the higher ups ie Captains follow the guideline that they enforce on those below them and i cant see any other way for that to happen other than having yourself step in to do so as they generally govern themselves, I dont think its much to ask really? with Asylum V2 around the corner the only other issue is this so why not knock it out beforehand? 

5


Video or it didn't happen. Also, you gotta understand they are captains. They have been on the APD for a very long time, they deal with all the bullshit that you don't see having a little freedom on cop is a perk with the rank. You make it sound like every time captains are on they are going around sending people to jail for no reason and not even taking their lasers off which isn't the case at all.  Yet another rebel complaining about the APD because they got the shit end of the stick

 

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6 minutes ago, Sean That Irish Guy said:

@Clint Beastwood The point im trying to make with this post is to try and make the higher ups ie Captains follow the guideline that they enforce on those below them and i cant see any other way for that to happen other than having yourself step in to do so as they generally govern themselves, I dont think its much to ask really? with Asylum V2 around the corner the only other issue is this so why not knock it out beforehand? 

Believe in your IA, if its good enough and not just a rant.

 

I chose @Samperino because he's level headed. 

 

Even if its an admin - there's a point which we know isn't acceptable and destroying someones game play.

 

There's also a lot you guys do not see where Lieutenants and Captains are reprimanded - thats not necessarily public.  

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21 minutes ago, Sean That Irish Guy said:

 

From what i understand its the CoP who does that, could be wrong, but if not thats not the way to go about it. Owners should deal with issues like that or make a position that does due to the fact that the APD has a massive role on the server.

wanna make a "Senior policing review board", you can be my vice chair.

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4 minutes ago, HomeUser said:

These discussions about the APD are getting stupid, we need fewer snowflakes around here.

Its hilarious you asking for fewer snowflakes when youre one of the biggest on the server, your steam screenshots are literally full of you reporting every single fucking thing you see on the server, if if its not a rule break lol. I guess that bank the other day with your 100 round mag really padded the ego aye?

 

Just now, Scott said:

What on earth are you talking about? Sean makes a valid point in a post about things that many people feel are a problem and you're pretending that this happens all the time?

Its fine hes Donor 7 Scott.

 

13 minutes ago, HomeUser said:


Video or it didn't happen. Also, you gotta understand they are captains. They have been on the APD for a very long time, they deal with all the bullshit that you don't see having a little freedom on cop is a perk with the rank. You make it sound like every time captains are on they are going around sending people to jail for no reason and not even taking their lasers off which isn't the case at all.  Yet another rebel complaining about the APD because they got the shit end of the stick

 

Lets break this down:

So what if they are captains? If anything that should make them MORE inclined to follow the fucking policies. 

"Theyve been on the APD a very long time" Even more of a reason to not act like they do. Shit, ive been a cop longer than some of them and im not that much a cunt to people and im a massive cunt.

"Yet another rebel complaining" Theres multiple admins, highers here on this thread and who have witnessed what ive stated above so you can shove that statement right back up there pal.

Listen, i get you play cop more than civ and your opinion is gonna be more bias no matter but you have the advantage of having a friendship with most of the people in question, others dont. You wont get the shit end of the stick so take the statements above with a grain of salt and try seeing the situation from every angle.

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Definitely valid points.

 

I think the take away everyone should have reading this is simple

 

If you have a legitimate concern about the way someone conducts themselves, approach it seriously and you will get a serious response.

 

If you continue with the idea that "Oh, hes a Captain/Admin, they never do anything about them." you will get no where.

 

In my personal experience I demoted 2 retired Captains - 1 active Captain and plenty of Lieutenants.  There ARE limitations.

 

Does EVERY IA have to lead to a demotion?  No.  Sometimes demotions are counter-productive.  But any action taken will count against a permanent record.  

 

Help us, help you.

 

 

For those that do not know.

Constable + IA's are handled by Lieutenants

Lieutenant IA's are handled by Captains

Captain IA's are handled by the Chief Of Police

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18 minutes ago, HomeUser said:


Video or it didn't happen. Also, you gotta understand they are captains. They have been on the APD for a very long time, they deal with all the bullshit that you don't see having a little freedom on cop is a perk with the rank. You make it sound like every time captains are on they are going around sending people to jail for no reason and not even taking their lasers off which isn't the case at all.  Yet another rebel complaining about the APD because they got the shit end of the stick

 

I really haven't seen much of what Irish is talking about first hand. However if nasty shit like that is really going on whether or not they are a captain is fucking irrelevant. The amount of bullshit they may or may not have to deal with is also irrelevant. They took on the job and responsibilities of being a captain on their own accord. That doesn't give them the right to abuse their powers. Let me reiterate, I have not seen this personally but if it is going on to the extent described I can tell you with near certainty, that shit won't slide.

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23 minutes ago, HomeUser said:


Video or it didn't happen. Also, you gotta understand they are captains. They have been on the APD for a very long time, they deal with all the bullshit that you don't see having a little freedom on cop is a perk with the rank. You make it sound like every time captains are on they are going around sending people to jail for no reason and not even taking their lasers off which isn't the case at all.  Yet another rebel complaining about the APD because they got the shit end of the stick

 

LT app denied 

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Just now, Clint Beastwood said:

Definitely valid points.

 

I think the take away everyone should have reading this is simple

 

If you have a legitimate concern about the way someone conducts themselves, approach it seriously and you will get a serious response.

 

If you continue with the idea that "Oh, hes a Captain/Admin, they never do anything about them." you will get no where.

 

In my personal experience I demoted 2 retired Captains - 1 active Captain and plenty of Lieutenants.  There ARE limitations.

 

Does EVERY IA have to lead to a demotion?  No.  Sometimes demotions are counter-productive.  But any action taken will count against a permanent record.  

 

Help us, help you.

Totally agree with everything, 100%. But i still think they need to be spoken with and have the rules they are supposed to abide by explained again. Its not hard to just say "Stop acting like theres gonna be no repercussions to your actions". I think it'll go along way. 

Also thank you for the input.

Just now, Steve said:

I really haven't seen much of what Irish is talking about first hand. However if nasty shit like that is really going on whether or not they are a captain is fucking irrelevant. The amount of bullshit they may or may not have to deal with is also irrelevant. They took on the job and responsibilities of being a captain on their own accord. That doesn't give them the right to abuse their powers. Let me reiterate, I have not seen this personally but if it is going on to the extent described I can tell you with near certainty, that shit won't slide.

Im pretty sure you might have been there for 1 of what i stated in the original post but regardless, im sure youve seen your fare share of questionable actions since playing on Asylum.

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Just now, Steve said:

I really haven't seen much of what Irish is talking about first hand. However if nasty shit like that is really going on whether or not they are a captain is fucking irrelevant. The amount of bullshit they may or may not have to deal with is also irrelevant. They took on the job and responsibilities of being a captain on their own accord. That doesn't give them the right to abuse their powers. Let me reiterate, I have not seen this personally but if it is going on to the extent described I can tell you with near certainty, that shit won't slide.

I hear all the time about things that happen but I haven't witnessed too much either. The only thing I can really remember happening was getting pushed at the bank by cops in an ifrit last week which was... interesting.

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Just now, Sean That Irish Guy said:

Totally agree with everything, 100%. But i still think they need to be spoken with and have the rules they are supposed to abide by explained again. Its not hard to just say "Stop acting like theres gonna be no repercussions to your actions". I think it'll go along way. 

Also thank you for the input.

Im pretty sure you might have been there for 1 of what i stated in the original post but regardless, im sure youve seen your fare share of questionable actions since playing on Asylum.

Sure I've seen questionable shit. If it happened in the last few weeks and I was their for it I think it was addressed. But if it is more recent then that I'm not too sure.

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2 minutes ago, Scott said:

I hear all the time about things that happen but I haven't witnessed too much either. The only thing I can really remember happening was getting pushed at the bank by cops in an ifrit last week which was... interesting.

I heard about the ifrit thing second hand but didn't see it.

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In my experience, some of the actions of these higher ups which may be deemed as corrupt or unlawful are usually in the taste of having fun and are rarely, if ever,  in poor taste. However, I think that there are plenty of lower-downs which may view the behavior acceptable and take things too far to the point where the hurt feelings counter goes up. Captains should set an example along with all other higher-ups. I think that the mindset that captains are immune is due to a lack of transparency when it comes to what actions were taken. How it is you want to address the transparency is up to the Owners and we, as a community, have no entitlement to that information. But, maybe for the sake of alleviating the frustrations of the community regarding this issue, such discipline is disclosed.

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I've never seen a Captain, retired or otherwise, go out of their way to be abusive. I don't want to use a blanket excuse such as "they deserved it", or "they knew what they were doing / getting themselves into". Butsometimes, that is the case.

Looking from the outside in on what a Captain in game does can look very damning. What's likely is that the Captain has a good reason for lethaling, jailing, increasing someone's ticket, or even leaving them restrained for 10 minutes. 

Just a day or two ago, I drove a suspect back from a bank robbery. If you were on the outside of the situation, you would've seen me simply drive back to HQ, and throw him in jail without saying a word to him. In reality, he was screaming his lungs out in vehicle chat, and I'm absolutely not going to process that.

We've been on these servers long enough, 2013 btw, to have a rapport with almost everyone who has stuck around on these servers. We recognize your name and your past interactions with us. If we know someone to be toxic, troll us, bar gate us, etc, we'll give you a shorter leash. There are ways to get attention from the police that doesn't require us to dislike you for it.

While the solution isn't as simple as "Be nicer to the police", it would go a long way to correcting the issues you're bringing up, @Sean That Irish Guy. If you report an officer who's treating you like shit, and the video shows him treating you like shit, but you are also treating him like shit, it devalues your report. If you report a cop being an asshole for no reason, he'll have guaranteed action taken. The way I used to handle reports on officers boiled down to a couple of factors. Was the officer acting negatively as a reaction, did he make a mistake, or was he being malicious. Only two of those deserve punishment, and one needs a lot of context.

Sort of rambling, but if you don't give an officer a reason to mistreat you, he'll eventually get himself demoted/removed.

I can't speak for the spawning stuff in, or lethaling someone to not have to drive them back.

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7 minutes ago, Durga said:

Just a day or two ago, I drove a suspect back from a bank robbery. If you were on the outside of the situation, you would've seen me simply drive back to HQ, and throw him in jail without saying a word to him. In reality, he was screaming his lungs out in vehicle chat, and I'm absolutely not going to process that.

#freetheboys @Batcan

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I've been a cop for over 2 years. Not once have I ever seen captains send people to jail/lethal them for no reason. There is always a reason for someone getting sent to jail etc. People will claim 'I got sent to jail for no reason' but I mean let's be honest why would a captain just see someone and send them to jail.

 

Regarding the whole ifrit thing, it's a one-time thing and it's not a big deal. If they pushed in a strider/hunter or an ifrit at the end of the day its still armor. Only difference is speed, number of seats and the driver can smoke.

Edited by HomeUser

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I dont think ive seen any of the captains we currently have abuse their power. In fact, most of the time when Sgts and LTs want to do something like authorize lethals, raid a house/seize crates and a captain is there they usually just tell them to just enter the house without seizing crates and keep using downing rounds. Im not sure how much you play cop but if youve ever played with samp or darknight theyre usually pretty level headed in those situations. cant speak for cody havent ever played with him. I can agree though sometimes there are retired captains that will use their position to either help friends or just abuse it in general, but even that really doesnt happen very often. The captains didnt get to where they are by breaking the rules. 

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22 minutes ago, HomeUser said:

I've been a cop for over 2 years. Not once have I ever seen captains send people to jail/lethal them for no reason. Like Durga said there is always a reason for someone getting sent to jail etc. People will claim 'I got sent to jail for no reason' but I mean let's be honest why would a captain just see someone and send them to jail.

 

Regarding the whole ifrit thing, it's a one-time thing and it's not a big deal. If they pushed in a strider/hunter or an ifrit at the end of the day its still armor. Only difference is speed, number of seats and the driver can smoke.

 

I'm not going to say names but there is 100% a retired captain ( Still retired and not removed, to my knowledge ) who lethals and sends to jail for no reason other than you hurt his feelings.

Edited by Elaiscancer
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Just now, Elaiscancer said:

 

I'm not going to say names but there is 100% a retired captain ( Still retired and not removed, to my knowledge ) who lethals and send to jail for no reason other than you hurt his feelings.

So report them??

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