Jump to content
Pizza Man

Balance medic talents across factions

Balance medic talents across factions  

102 members have voted

  1. 1. Balance police medic talents and give them to actual medics

    • Balance police medic and civ medic talents and give more perks to actual medics.
    • Leave the perks as they are.


Recommended Posts

23 minutes ago, Tyler said:

What homeuser just said there was just a purge of all of the inactive constables so yes that number is accurate.

as a constable you are marked active whenever you sync (on civ or cop)

TRYHARD, thero and .Casper like this

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, Tyler said:

The tiny little 4 slices up at the very top is what people are complaining about... 5.8% of alllll the APD and if you ignore the retired captains who haven't played in 6 months+ 4.9% of the 1000+ APD members.

Flawed argument, those 5.8% are significantly more active than the other 94.2%, they literally are required to play a certain amount of hours in order to keep their rank. Thought you would know this given you were a SGT. at one point.

Erik, Mason Statham and TRYHARD like this

Share this post


Link to post
5 minutes ago, thero said:

Flawed argument, those 5.8% are significantly more active than the other 94.2%, they literally are required to play a certain amount of hours in order to keep their rank. Thought you would know this given you were a SGT. at one point.

Funny how Corporals have to be active too and all the time im on the TS and see only constables on.

Share this post


Link to post
19 minutes ago, Erik said:

as a constable you are marked active whenever you sync (on civ or cop)

And false it has a distinction on Civilian time played and Cop time played.

Share this post


Link to post
5 hours ago, Rodrigo said:

There should be a change on medic cops for sure. Instead of it being 75 % faster bloodbag change it to 50 % for example. Don't need to be a major change. But the no cooldown defib has to go. If people don't understand why they are clueless simple as that.

The civ medic talents is pretty much where they should be at this point. Not op or bad. They are pretty much the best we could hope for as a civ tbh.

Don't pretend the civs have not been nerfed over the years.

The defib cooldown thing is a bug isn't it?

Share this post


Link to post
7 minutes ago, Steve said:

The defib cooldown thing is a bug isn't it?

Master Combat Medic - Overrides the 5 minute cool down on reviving a player. (SGT+) [65000 prestige]

Rodrigo likes this

Share this post


Link to post
22 minutes ago, Tyler said:

Funny how Corporals have to be active too and all the time im on the TS and see only constables on.

84b9f04ceb0c3b450fa222cce6e6e42b.png

and if you're wondering about s1 right now, there are 3 constables. So both servers combined it is literally 50/50 between constables and sgt+

Bustah, Mason Statham and TRYHARD like this

Share this post


Link to post
34 minutes ago, thero said:

Flawed argument, those 5.8% are significantly more active than the other 94.2%, they literally are required to play a certain amount of hours in order to keep their rank. Thought you would know this given you were a SGT. at one point.

Add a 5 hour per month requirements for constables and corporals and I guarantee 400 ACTIVE cops are gone.

Share this post


Link to post
31 minutes ago, Mitch (IFRIT) said:

Why?

Probably because he's actually thinking logically. I fail to see how the server will achieve whitelisted medics when you have a cop who will either had equal and greater medic abilities.

Share this post


Link to post
17 minutes ago, Mason Statham said:

Probably because he's actually thinking logically. I fail to see how the server will achieve whitelisted medics when you have a cop who will either had equal and greater medic abilities.

Yeah I get that. I'm reading this poll as changing things from they are now without whitelisted medics. 

Share this post


Link to post
3 hours ago, Mitch (IFRIT) said:

Yeah I get that. I'm reading this poll as changing things from they are now without whitelisted medics. 

Cops have 100% of the responsibility of medics right now. 

Medics are practically useless and only benefit in the off chance you find one outside of Kavala or dont get shot by a cop trying to revive someone.

I wouldnt say civs/rebels have any perks either for medical even with the infamy talents just because you hardly even realized that there is a benefit when you have them. People just use that specific infamy tree to try get medical at rebel. They still have to adren shot, bloodbag again etc.

Only way i see this working is make is so whitelisted medics take more if not all of the responsibility of the medic role while still keep some perks for cops to function and adding more for them to work for even if not medical related.

Patato likes this

Share this post


Link to post
2 hours ago, thero said:

84b9f04ceb0c3b450fa222cce6e6e42b.png

and if you're wondering about s1 right now, there are 3 constables. So both servers combined it is literally 50/50 between constables and sgt+

That was prime time when we were fighting Nv and FSA running Coke/right after... i'm not saying there are never higher ups on obv and usually when you see a higher up you see several.

Share this post


Link to post
10 minutes ago, Tyler said:

That was prime time when we were fighting Nv and FSA running Coke/right after... i'm not saying there are never higher ups on obv and usually when you see a higher up you see several.

2b06919f5e2cffd49339156bf2a66ac0.png

Few hours later and its still 50% SGTs+

thero and Rodrigo like this

Share this post


Link to post
3 hours ago, TRYHARD said:

Add a 5 hour per month requirements for constables and corporals and I guarantee 400 ACTIVE cops are gone.

I don't see a purpose in making it so constables have activity requirements. However cpls do have activity requirements.

BlackShot likes this

Share this post


Link to post
3 hours ago, Erik said:

Master Combat Medic - Overrides the 5 minute cool down on reviving a player. (SGT+) [65000 prestige]

Oh, well I did hear there was a bug where even constables could keep reviving people. I guess that was fixed? I don't remember when if it was.

Share this post


Link to post
33 minutes ago, Steve said:

Oh, well I did hear there was a bug where even constables could keep reviving people. I guess that was fixed? I don't remember when if it was.

There is a cooldown that says "you have recently revived someone and your plates need time to recharge" and one that says "the victim was recently revived and cannot be revived again for x seconds".  Medics and all cops can bypass the first one, and cop medics with the perk can bypass both.

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, Erik said:

There is a cooldown that says "you have recently revived someone and your plates need time to recharge" and one that says "the victim was recently revived and cannot be revived again for x seconds".  Medics and all cops can bypass the first one, and cop medics with the perk can bypass both.

Only Sgt+  have the talent to bypass the time perk

Share this post


Link to post
On 6/16/2019 at 8:06 AM, HomeUser said:

These forum posts are getting old. Rebels lose a fight, APD needs a nurf

We should start a poll to block your account from the suggestions thread. 

thero, .Casper and Maaqs like this

Share this post


Link to post
16 minutes ago, wollie35 said:

We should start a poll to block your account from the suggestions thread. 

Well homeuser has a point, so I don’t know why you want to block him from seeing suggestions

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, Master27411 said:

Well homeuser has a point, so I don’t know why you want to block him from seeing suggestions

developer makes post about balancing medic, which is stupid that cops are better medics then actual medics themselves and homeuser cries about the rebel cop situation. His point is dumb af, nothing unusual tho.

 

 

thero likes this

Share this post


Link to post
On 6/16/2019 at 8:08 AM, Mason Statham said:

Anyone CPL+ will say the talents are fine anyone who doesn't have them will say their busted but if you put it in in perceptive how does it make any sense to be able to defib someone in around 3 seconds and blood bag them in the same amount of time. Pretty sure a fak takes longer then a 75% blood bag fail to see how that can be considered balanced along with never losing your 1 blood bag.

FAK is slightly faster. Source: doing both at the same time it finishes roughly a second later.

Btw pretty sure everyone saying "cops instant revive with full talents" pretty sure it's like 5 seconds. Not instant but certainly very quick.

While bloodbags and defibbing faster on cop is great as a cop, my main point of contention is how much cops have a presence and a willingness to help civilians across the map. When cops get notified of a medic request a few KM outside a town, THEY ACTUALLY GO TO IT and in a decent amount of time as well. (Not flying in a hummingbird from Kavala to Sofia smh.)

Considering whitelisting medics is coming, no idea why this poll exists though. Such a massive change with such a possibility for impact is surely more important to test than hyperbalancing police and civs.

An even greater point and one I am VERY strong about, is hyperbalance. Hyperbalance is what makes games boring. If all cops and civs had the same talents & equipment, I'm willing to bet Asylum's population would've been gone during Paratus' time. Keep Rebels balance offensive-oriented and cops balance defensive/assist-oriented.

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, Dust Runner said:

Keep Rebels balance offensive-oriented and cops balance defensive/assist-oriented.

Nothing to keep here, cops have always been the offensive and rebels the defensive. 3/4 of the major crimes are set up for the rebels to defend from police and in this role-play world of cops and robbers, the cops chase the robbers as they have from the beginning of time.

Share this post


Link to post
59 minutes ago, Pizza Man said:

Nothing to keep here, cops have always been the offensive and rebels the defensive. 3/4 of the major crimes are set up for the rebels to defend from police and in this role-play world of cops and robbers, the cops chase the robbers as they have from the beginning of time.

Technically I guess? Though a technicality does no justice to the topic.

Police are required to respond to those events. Rebels are the aggressor. They are starting conflict and then playing a defensive position. Not a defensive or assisting role. Their role is to create conflict and respond aggressively to the police and civilians. Aggressor and Responder I suppose are more appropriate terms if we're taking it to a dictionary fight.

If your roles for the factions was correct it would be more appropriate for cops to have the best equipment and gear since they are so mobile and aggressive.

Then rebels because they are so defensive have all the best medical talents, spike strips so they can stop cars from getting to them while defending, checkpoint gear so they can make outposts to demonstrate their territorial take-back from the government (defend them of course). Since they get to defend so much I don't see the need for such a fast armored vehicle, so they have the hunter, and the Strider just for smoke capabilities for cover.

Cops are always chasing so they need the fastest armored vehicle, Ifrit. Why would they need checkpoint abilities if all they do is attack and go aggro on people? What's the point of a big transport helicopter like the Huron if they are always on the move and need to go fast? Don't they need 7.62s so they can be aggressive and use the Arma 3 ballistics system to better use? (its for a point, cops do not need all 7.62s)

In the end, it just makes sense with the way the current system is for medics to be the way they are. Police medics do more and have done more with the release of the prestige system than civilian medics have ever done since the dawn of the server. I'm willing to bet anything on that. Cop medics are limited by their envrionment as well. Just for game balance having people that get to sit behind hard cover in these objectives you have mentioned being able to bloodbag extremely fast and revive people just as fast isn't very fun. As a cop landing a shot on someone with 6.5 kinda matters. You know they need to FAK or bloodbagto continue laying down 7.62 lead at everyone they see. Cops die in 1-2 shots anyways (unless they purchase a 10k loadout for an extra 1 bullet taken HINT: nobody hardly does). It would reinforce the already horrifically imbalanced objectives in the side of the people that usually win them anyways. Also technically, with FAK being 4 seconds to 75, and the medic kit (default arma 3) being 100 HP in 4 seconds, 75% bloodbag speed to 100 (4.75-5 seconds) is slower than arma 3 combat life saver units are intended to heal. Food for thought.

I'm not opposed to change in general, but with the list of disadvantages and advantages rebels and cops both have, I see it as a net loss hyperbalancing both sides. Net loss of faction differences and net loss in gameplay changes (nerfs/un-needed buffs), therefore, loss of fun and uniqueness acquired by playing both sides.

EDIT: you'll notice my vote was for the balance side of things because the medic faction should have everything the police medics have and more. I'm not advocating for civ/cop medic balance.

Edited by Dust Runner
Rag and Bandit like this

Share this post


Link to post
54 minutes ago, Dust Runner said:

Technically I guess? Though a technicality does no justice to the topic.

... then you go on some tangent about giving the police all the rebel gear cause they are "technically" in the wrong role?

It's not as cut and dry as being a defender gives you a strict advantage over any fight, it's almost the complete opposite. The best way to explain this is with a game like CSGO where the defending team, the counter terrorist immediately on round start have to split up their forces to defend multiple objectives such as A site and B site, and if one part of the team fails, the other(s) are essentially doomed because now they are at a disadvantage having to take back the lost site. This holds true to the bank where you have to decide to have your team cover the bottom floor, the roof, lighthouse, construction or to simply hope it goes your way and play everyone on A site, same for the fed but much harder where you must mainly split among 3 separate gates and of course means you need more people. (jail almost everyone knows is the easiest to defend because of this exact reason ...)

54 minutes ago, Dust Runner said:

Police medics do more and have done more with the release of the prestige system than civilian medics have ever done since the dawn of the server. I'm willing to bet anything on that.

The only thing that cops do for the majority of civilians that are past picking peaches is make them respawn cause they accidentally clicked request medic instead of allow revive, and no shit cops will do more then medics given the correct perks because it enables them to and not to mention the prestige gain from doing so, that way they can work on getting those 5 second blood bags.

54 minutes ago, Dust Runner said:

Cops die in 1-2 shots anyways (unless they purchase a 10k loadout for an extra 1 bullet taken HINT: nobody hardly does).

Cops have so many advantages when it comes to economy, too many to list, but some of the best features to compensate for this.

  • Don't lose virtual inventory on death.
  • Police vehicles and weapons cost dramatically less than it does for civilians.
  • Spawn with loadout (including a level 2 vest if purchased only once before).
  • By their nature, don't have to pay tickets or serve jail time.
  • Make money from arresting/killing rebels, and of course this does not apply vice versa.

 

And that is not even to mention the impacts of the recursive net balance hyper inflation effect.

Bustah and TRYHARD like this

Share this post


Link to post

 

29 minutes ago, Pizza Man said:

And that is not even to mention the impacts of the recursive net balance hyper inflation effect. 

I guess he didn't think about how the vectors of a tesseract could become decentralized and flood the market with an immeasurable quantity of equity. Absolute buffoon.

Edited by Bustah

Share this post


Link to post
3 hours ago, Dust Runner said:

FAK is slightly faster. Source: doing both at the same time it finishes roughly a second later.

Btw pretty sure everyone saying "cops instant revive with full talents" pretty sure it's like 5 seconds. Not instant but certainly very quick.

While bloodbags and defibbing faster on cop is great as a cop, my main point of contention is how much cops have a presence and a willingness to help civilians across the map. When cops get notified of a medic request a few KM outside a town, THEY ACTUALLY GO TO IT and in a decent amount of time as well. (Not flying in a hummingbird from Kavala to Sofia smh.)

Considering whitelisting medics is coming, no idea why this poll exists though. Such a massive change with such a possibility for impact is surely more important to test than hyperbalancing police and civs.

An even greater point and one I am VERY strong about, is hyperbalance. Hyperbalance is what makes games boring. If all cops and civs had the same talents & equipment, I'm willing to bet Asylum's population would've been gone during Paratus' time. Keep Rebels balance offensive-oriented and cops balance defensive/assist-oriented.

If you think that the cops are balanced with those perks, you're an idiot. Just like how you guys think there is no difference between an ifrit, hunter and strider.

Share this post


Link to post
2 hours ago, Pizza Man said:

 

I would like to begin with agreeing with you on police medic's selecting "6" to make people who request medic wait to respawn. Though I will say it's not an accident to hit "6". It's so far from any other useful key it's intentional. And anyone intentionally telling someone they are on their way from 14km usually isn't or won't make it, and therefore, is an asshole. Any cops pressing 6 randomly to delay respawn times is being a dick. Medics due this to me from Kavala so I can relate. Though that's not the only thing police medics do I can assure you.

I can see the parallel you are drawing between CS:GO and it's attack/defense structure. It's a strong concept, and I can understand why people are drawn to it, but the equity and equipment in CS:GO is much more even/hyperbalanced, with an incredibly well-balanced economy. It's no surprise, that with the economy based on performance and losing streaks now, it fits their role, and also rewards good play. More parallel's, on Attack they get more people for a push... but with the same or even better equipment than defense on any round other than an eco round or any rounds directly after a pistol round (not so equivalent at all for Asylum). It's an aim more than a brain concept for rewards and winning quite typically. (and maybe who's memorized the best smoke positions and flashbang spots). It's also a first-person game. Big, BIG, point there.

First person game's balance on defending and attacking is RIDICULOUSLY DIFFERENT than a third-person's game attack and offense. Don't forget the obvious! Defending with third-person is the easiest thing to learn. Especially since Asylum ENABLES STATIC CROSSHAIRS!!! A feature I still can't believe exists to this day! On top of being easy to learn, it enables so much flexibility and planning from defenders. Not to mention with Arma 3's networking and the way it handles shoddy connections, gives an even further advantage to the person in cover peeking first!

You can see I have to be very specific in the examples I pull from that game compared to Asylum. Asylum's economy is not healthy. The ultra-rich and admin team are usually the people spear-heading conflict and using all the tools they have while also having the experience to use those tools at great effect. Most cops aren't ultra-rich. Cops don't make that much money because it's split between the 10-16 player Zerg also helping you at those objectives. Maybe if they don't get pummeled and have SGT's+ on, they capture 1-3 suspects who they then have to transport safely back to HQ hoping nobody with suicide vests is waiting (because they got lethal'd at the beginning of the bank and respawned in wait) and then process them. Then if they the suspects role-play and the cops aren't assholes, they get no pay. They get the satisfaction of winning, a negative bank account, and some great RP interaction (maybe and if they care, while all cops should not all do). If the suspect is a dick, or just wants a ticket or jail, lets go best case scenario within reason and say 3 suspects have 70k bounties and there are 12 officers on. None of them roleplay. None of them earn a reduced ticket. All officers get ROUNDED UP 6k per suspect, 18k in total. Cop loadouts cost 4k with mags and scope. 10k with MX and Pilot Coveralls. I usually buy the latter. I made 1.5 loadouts. Or if i like getting 1-2 shotted, I made 4.5 loadouts.

Cop's pay NEARLY not quite but relatively the same price as civilians for vehicles now let's not forget. So if I use an Orca to try and drop officers, or land them places and get RPG'd or shot out, about 80k is gone. 40k for a hummingbird. 10k cheaper than a on-the-market civ one, but you can imagine what 7.62 does to it if you aren't around enough to be familiar. Though I should specify cops pay about the same as civs for vehicles that are on the market, which is uncommon. Still expensive enough to matter. Considering cops risk resources a lot more with RPG's and 7.62's flying by them all the time nowadays. Hunters are like 40-50 depending on taxes so there's that, but their the weakest, smokeless, slowest armor of them all so, woohoo I guess? I'd definitely pay full price for ifrits on cop. I'd pay full price for ANY of the resources rebels have on Cop. They are THAT worth it. Even if I have to risk dying and losing the 20k+ loadouts rebels pay for when it's incredibly likely to die at the horrifically imbalanced Civ vs Cop objs.

I feel this thread is too hijacked but you seem interested enough for me to bother, cops throw an average of 3 lives if not more at these objectives. Is it because of poor strategy usually? Sure. Is it because the rebels have better equipment? Third-person while defending with HARD cover (not concealment and not wallbangable!) Definitely a strong factor. IS it because most rebel players try more and are better than most cop players? Hell yeah. No doubt about that. People usually play cop to RP and don't think combat is that big a factor coming into it. All these fresh players to Arma 3/non-tryhards have an extensive factor on the APD. (Yes, I'm a tryhard on cop I don't use the term negatively, more truthfully.)

Both factions have the potential of awesome power. Cops with their numbers, slightly cheaper vehicles, prestige talents, decent economy advantage, respawning close to come back to objectives, and helipads everywhere, flashbangs (though talent-tied), vehicle trackers (talent-tied), fugitive pings, spike strips, (talent-tied)checkpoints, siren initiation, accessible 6.5 and under calibers.

Rebels with defense-oriented objectives (nobody does evidence lock-up unless less than 10 cops are on or they are ultra-rich), 7.62 rifles, superior armored vehicles, RPGs, CSAT's without buying crates, CSAT's with carrier lite's when server donor perks are up, lethal grenades, suicide vests, speedbombs, Katiba (it fires faster, they even get the better 6.5). Some of those things are expensive and I understand they aren't used every single time, the point still stands as to what tools each side has.

I'm sure I missed a few but in a pissing contest rebels always win out in terms of power. But I'm no fool, cops aren't SUPPOSED to win these objectives. Wouldn't be very fun for civilians (the dominant playerbase) now would it? Why else would they be terribly balanced. For example cops usually winning the Evidence Locker proves how strong defending in a third-person game is. I've gone on long enough, I'm sure you get my stance.

DonDurka, Bandit and Rag like this

Share this post


Link to post
3 hours ago, Batcan said:

If you think that the cops are balanced with those perks, you're an idiot. Just like how you guys think there is no difference between an ifrit, hunter and strider.

Only people who aren't experienced think any of the vehicles are the same. In fact if you can find a police officer saying on the forums "There is no difference between the hunter, strider, and ifrit." I'll give you 100k.

No cops aren't balanced compared to civs with those perks. That's the point. There's a long list mentioned above of things civs have that cops don't, and things cops have that civs don't.

Prestige roles as they are don't break the game, the same way rebels having 7.62 and RPGs doesn't break the game. It's just another game-play feature.

Hyperbalance: The act of balancing a game to a level where both sides are effectively the same in practice, and are simply just red vs blue. Since it's my personal definition and not a technical one, I'll add I think it's a boring and lazy way to design most games. Especially complex light-rp servers on Military simulation games.

EDIT: also thank you guys for talking, I have nothing better (that I want) to do on phone-shift at work.

Edited by Dust Runner
Leady, Bandit and makyl like this

Share this post


Link to post

There is 4 slots for Medic.  Means 4 Corporals + Can revive someone faster.  (Not counting Asylum moderating staff)   Only people who can revive again instantly is SGT + Who have to do a lot to get that prestige to finally get that ability after you have maxed out your entire medic.  So maybe.... Kill the medics so they can't revive? Cause once they get revived they have that cool down timer like everyone else does.

Share this post


Link to post
17 minutes ago, Pizza Man said:

You need to crunch down your posts, cause i'm actually not reading that.

tldr, poll says 60 - 40, do what you gotta do.

Also this probably isnt the tldr, didnt read it myself

.Casper and Good Lub like this

Share this post


Link to post
9 minutes ago, Gen. Henry Arnold said:

I quit cop, haven’t touched it since the new year :). Opened my eyes 

I know you are playing civ, so not towards ya. But it really does right?

Share this post


Link to post

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...