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v2 Bounty Hunter Discussion


v2 Bounty Hunter Discussion  

147 members have voted

  1. 1. v2 Bounty Hunter Discussion

    • Keep Bounty Hunter as was in v1
    • Increase minimum track bounty
    • Nerf Bounty Hunter gear
    • Remove Bounty Hunter


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6 hours ago, Nicolas March said:

MX is is 6.5 (Cannot shoot though hunters and ifrit) 

MK is 7.62 (Can shoot trough hunters and ifrit)

What should happend is right now mx is 7k, TRG is also 7k. who would want to buy a trg when you can buy a mx? reduce price of trg to 6k and keep MX at 7k,

+1 to needing to wait to arrest someone (just like how you need to when your the final bouty hunter level

+1 to zipties breaking if the boutny hunter is more then 1 km away (this could be abused though if he dies, so would need to be 3-4 minutes then breaks)

I have never heard of people with 20-30 mags on them...  MX for cop is 2.4k, mx for bh is 7k, katiba is 6k, mk is 10k. price is already good.

Most people that say ''remove mx'' are salty because they get ratted in therisa by a guy with a po7, removing the mx will not change anything. Also if your complaining of a bounty hunter attacking you at a cartel and you lose, clearly your doing something wrong considering you have mks and cars that they cannot shoot when your in them

Hunters are already 100k, ifrits are 90-95k, Hunters are alot easier to kill if your inside then someone in a ifrit

Pilot and CSATS should not be removed since cops have them, rebels have them, bh should also have them. if this happens you will see me at rebel buying 100 pilots to put in my house

+1 to 7-15k minimum bounty (this would give you time to turn yourself in if you kill someone in self defence.  

 

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MY SUGGESTION

Change MX from 500 honour to 20k honour ----- (10k-5k) would be a bit better imo 

When you get it removed for abusing the license you cannot buy it again for 1 hour (not for being arrested since this could be for multuple reasons not connected to abusing your license 

This is the one thing i dont agree with ^^^ cops often abuse revoking BH license

Add 5.56 lethals for apex predator at skiptracer (you already have it for 6.5)

Not get a charge for unlawfull detainment if someone is in a group with your bounty (maybe change it to lawfull detainment?) this isnt too necessary as most cops understand and will let you off with this charge

Add a proccesing timer when arresting someone (10 seconds to 1 minute) this would be a good compromise for all the people crying

 

alot of these are really good points(me and my group have already been talking about most of these ourselves.)

 

 

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Let's just remove everything scary and dangerous so that no one can easily get a bounty. Remove any weapon with a higher caliber than 5.56. Remove grenades, remove all vehicles so we can avoid racking up those vehicular manslaughter charges. The APD will no longer need more than the just the MK20, Spar 16 and the PO7 too, since rebels will only get up to 5.56.

My point is that removing good content or heavily nerfing it is not the way to go. All these cartel esports wannabe players just hate getting bounty hunted when they are trying to go to their precious 3rd cartel fight. If there has to be a small minimum, then fine. Although 25k is way too high of a minimum. If there must be one, it has to be reasonably lower, even though I saw no problem with bounty hunters before. They are a core part of the game, and should pose a threat to anyone that is foolish enough to do drugs with a bounty when they aren't prepared to defend themselves.

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1 hour ago, Defragments said:

Let's just remove everything scary and dangerous so that no one can easily get a bounty. Remove any weapon with a higher caliber than 5.56. Remove grenades, remove all vehicles so we can avoid racking up those vehicular manslaughter charges. The APD will no longer need more than the just the MK20, Spar 16 and the PO7 too, since rebels will only get up to 5.56.

My point is that removing good content or heavily nerfing it is not the way to go. All these cartel esports wannabe players just hate getting bounty hunted when they are trying to go to their precious 3rd cartel fight. If there has to be a small minimum, then fine. Although 25k is way too high of a minimum. If there must be one, it has to be reasonably lower, even though I saw no problem with bounty hunters before. They are a core part of the game, and should pose a threat to anyone that is foolish enough to do drugs with a bounty when they aren't prepared to defend themselves.

10-15k is fine. it would actually be more preferred for most bounty hunters from what people i play with have said in the past. usually we drop bounties that low anyways as they arent worth the risk vs reward. the min bounty being raised would benefit the most people tbh

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23 hours ago, BlackShot said:

From what I could notice, these are the main issues and they can all be addressed:

BOUNTY HUNTERS ARE TOO OVERPOWERED
- Restrict 5.56 rifles access to skip tracer and increase their prices.
- Increase price of Hunter and/or let it be unlocked via BH honor tree only.
- Reconsider pilot coveralls.

BOUNTY HUNTERS SEND EVERYONE TO JAIL
- Increase minimum bounty price to something between 15-25k. That wouldn't punish self-defense cases and allows time to pay off bounties (courthouse or cop ticket).

BOUNTY HUNTERS ARE CONSTANTLY DOWNING AND LEAVING PEOPLE RESTRAINED
- Increase BH license price by at least 200-300% (but perhaps don't make it so rebel license replaces it, just add a cooldown on switching them).
- Cops are *required* to seize Bounty Hunters licenses if: they kidnap cops or civs OR they down a civ who doesn't have a bounty, isn't armed and charge is prested.
 (Cop vs. BH policy could be better discussed. Just some ideas to make it less worth for Bounty Hunters to abuse their powers.)

 

23 hours ago, MrJackintheBox said:

Sad day for bounty hunters. rebels get everything I guess. 

Look, the only thing I did was compile a list with the most reasonable problems/solutions that people here had already discussed. However, I'm not saying we should apply every single nerf listed. On the other hand, it's impossible to ignore that, even if most players don't want to see bounty hunting being removed, they do expect some nerfing.

Edited by BlackShot
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I chose a tasty dramatic time to poke my head back in here, but I've been playing on/off since '14 so I'll address some of the big quotes in the main post:

1. Hunters/MX's/OP-Gear:

This one might be difficult to implement, but what if there were two tiers of bounty hunters? For example, low stakes and high stakes.

Low stakes bounty hunters can go after smaller bounties, say, 5k->30k, OR larger bounties that don't belong to a gang (suicide vest trolls, for example). Low-stakes hunters only have access to 9mm weapons and minimal defensive gear. These guys would primarily be AIDS janitors tasked with cleaning up lowlives in towns and cities. Since many wanted Kavala residents are only armed with rooks anyway, I believe this would be fair.

High stakes bounty hunters are able to go after serious gang bounties, and would have access to the "OP" equipment, because hunting gangs would be entirely unbalanced otherwise. A dude with a carrier lite, a 7.62mm rifle and at least two brain cells can easily wipe out a group of BH's wielding SMG's. The hunter is a well-balanced counter to ifrits and mobile guns, and the MX is practically a necessity to stand a chance against groups of coordinated 1km-peekers.

It should be noted that high stakes BH gear is considered illegal to low stakes hunters, and they will automatically become wanted and/or lose their license for possessing/using high stakes equipment as a low-stakes hunter.

 

2. "BH is just shitty cop with no RP req"

I will further address the lack of RP in #6. In my opinion, robo-hunting (i.e. "hands up" bang bang jail) should be treated like RDM and enforced STRICTLY. Bounty hunting should only be available to players who have spent some time on the servers already, and RDM bans should be more severe for BH abuse. Sure, it sucks to get killed by an RDM'er and have to respawn without your stuff, but getting RDM'd and then blocked from playing the game for an hour REALLY sucks, especially if the server is dead and you can't get out early.

 

3. Regarding notifying players that a BH is actively tracking them:

I like this idea, so long as it doesn't become too game breaking. The name/distance of the bounty hunter should not be in the notification.

- Disclosing distance means the target will just plain log out when the hunter is close (further complicating CL reports..."I was just getting off for the day!"). Without disclosing distance, the only surefire way to evade hunters is to rejoin the server often to drop yourself from their list, which is easy to document and report.

- Disclosing names will likely lead to metagaming. Lets say Mr BH is going after Mr Rebel. Mr Rebel gets the notification that Mr BH is pursuing him, at which point all he has to do is text the BH "if you come near me I'll kill you" every 5 minutes to hold initiation, and then set himself up in a nice defensive position to snipe the poor bastard, or intentionally lead him into an illegal area for the sole purpose of killing him without initiation.

 

4. "I want to fight other gangs and not have someone pull out a downing gun and send people to jail"

This one's simple: Bounty hunter license should be unobtainable by anyone in a gang that's doing rebel activity. This includes capping cartels/turfs, engaging in a gang war, robbing bank/fed, etc.  One may regain their license simply by leaving the gang, but like medics, they would not be allowed to assist known associates in gang related activity, and doing so would be a bannable offense.

 

5. On the topic of RP-friendly abuse (kidnapping, etc.):

I'm 100% okay with this as it can lead to a lot of fun RP, but there needs to be stricter in-game punishments for doing so. BH abuse should lead to a temporarily blacklisting of said bounty hunter for a specific time, be it IRL time or a number of server resets. I want to see people taking risks to have a wild time as a corrupt bounty hunter, but I DON'T want to see griefers downing dozens of randoms, going to jail for a bit, getting out and doing it again.

 

6. Everyone hates BH because they send you straight to jail, no ticket, BUT WHAT IF...:

What if there was a way for bounty hunters to make criminals pay reduced tickets like cops do? For example, have three options:

- Regular old send-straight-to-jail for the full bounty if the criminals being a dickhead(verbal abuse, shitlisting, attempting to kill the bounty hunter, buddies are pursuing the hunter in an orca, etc.)

- "Plea Deal" option: Gives them the option to pay off their bounty, no jail time, but illegal items still confiscated. This is beneficial to the bounty hunter as well, as (s)he is given the option to be merciful, and thus getting less hate from the general population.

- Paying a bounty near a hunter: If the rebel pays off his/her own bounty within 300m of a bounty hunter assigned to them, the hunter gets a small percentage of the fee they paid. The rebel doesn't lose a loudout and the hunter still gets compensated for the target. This also opens up opportunities for interesting roleplay that wasn't utilized much before, like escorting a criminal to pay their bounty off WITHOUT downing/restraining them, which would be incredibly useful for addressing small offenses.

 

7. Someone gets an auto-bounty for self-defense and then gets downed and sent to jail:

Kind of going off #6 again, but a bounty should not be assigned to a bounty hunter until at least 10 minutes after it is acquired. Bounty hunters aren't cops, they shouldn't be able to click "get bounty" and immediately apprehend someone at the scene of the crime. Bounty hunters go after people who are on the run. In 10 minutes, if a cop doesn't arrest the offender or they don't turn themselves in, only THEN do they become fair game for hunters.

 

Just my thoughts on some of the quotes listed in the post. Feel free to add to this, or clarify anything I fucked up.

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On 8/20/2019 at 7:02 PM, BlackShot said:

 

Look, the only thing I did was compile a list with the most reasonable problems/solutions that people here had already discussed. However, I'm not saying we should apply every single nerf listed. On the other hand, it's impossible to ignore that, even if most players don't want to see bounty hunting being removed, they do expect some nerfing.

Looks like the community has responded with a resounding increase the minimum bounty.  The other nerfs have hardly any support at all.  Seems we should only implement the single thing because there is not actually a problem

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2 hours ago, danile666 said:

Looks like the community has responded with a resounding increase the minimum bounty.  The other nerfs have hardly any support at all.  Seems we should only implement the single thing because there is not actually a problem

You can only vote for one.  If I could vote for more than one thing then it would be a higher minimum bounty + a gear nerf.  V1 BH was way too good and it fucked the server.

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@Kowalski Nice post, Some things I agree with, others not so much, but very comprehensive and well done. It's a good change of pace to read something with some thought around here.

_________

A lot of people here keep talking about the MX, I say remove the PO7. Pistols are not seriously used to bounty hunt outside of DMV hunting and BH abuse. 

 

On the topic of overall nerfs and rebels wanting them gone, people really need to stop insulting people that vote to remove it. It's evident those in favor of less change are weighted towards people I see that usually just troll towns anyway. Rebels don't want bounty hunter gone because "They are salty they lost a fight" They don't like it because being restrained, either left somewhere or jailed is not fun. This is more of an issue I feel than any of the equipment that BHs get and what they can do. 

I'll say getting downed and left in a building was a large factor in me taking a break off of the game. Often I didn't even have a bounty, its just an issue of BHs trolling people to get high off of taking the fun out of others. Even for those that are genuinely bounty hunting, take the fun and mood out of someone else. A rebel who goes to a fight and gets killed is usually fine because he can respawn and is still in control of his experienceThis is a basic psychological factor of being in control of yourself. The same reason its generally feels more safe for you to be the driver in the car as opposed to a passenger in a plane, despite the fact that driving is far more dangerous, the control over your own safety provides comfort. The same thing is clearly happening here, when you are downed, restrained, left or jailed, you are forced out of control, and that is discomforting and takes away from the fun and the experience.

Nobody likes jail because you can't do anything, its AFK and make a sandwich time. Being downed is the same thing, there is nothing you can do beyond roll your eyes and set a 10 minute timer before you alt-f4. Honestly, game mechanics that actively encourage the player to close down the game is beyond me, that's not good for player retention, if I get a 45 minute jail time I can almost say for certain I'm done with asylum for the day, because I am going to go find a different activity to go do. 

Consider the consequences of bounty hunters and the mechanics that are involved in those consequences rather than bounty hunter itself. Why should someone become a bounty hunter, what should be allowed? Do you want bounty hunters to fetch players that just got a single self defense, lockpicked a single car?  Got hit with insurance fraud by a couple of trolls? What happens to the player who is hunted? How will you keep that player from not wanting to log out entirely? A lot of people push for lowered max jail time for this reason.

Also please do something about Bounty Hunter abuse, getting killed is fine, being downed and dragged around so I can't play makes me want to alt f4. Literally the only people who like the fact that you can get away with this are trolls.
 

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59 minutes ago, Defragments said:

I just found a detailed video explaining why everyone wants bounty hunter removed. (Spoiler! It's not because bounty hunting is op.)

 

Everyone got easy money when Recursion was a thing.  Doesn't change the fact that BH turned into cancer during V1.  Most people weren't even going rebel anymore other than people wanting to do cartels and banks and shit.  Made the game boring

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@Ghost0fDawn

I completely agree with the removal of PO7, (like you said, it's solely a low-cost trolling/DMV-camping tool, and any respectable BH worth their salt will arm themselves with a primary weapon to go after legitimate targets) as well as measures being taken to end griefing. It's one thing to troll someone with sui vest or checkpoint gate; a lot of lighthearted civ BS can be counted as "trolling" but it's acceptable since people often have a laugh over it in the incap screen. Same goes for kidnapping someone, taking them on an adventure (using them as cop bait or w/e) and letting them go if they play along.

 

Bounty abuse in the form of locking people up for little reason (apart from being bullied at school I suppose) needs to go. There is a clear difference between playful trolling and literally making people's experience shitty on purpose. As stated before, I believe higher requirements (playtime, $$$) will help curb this, along with harsher punishments for toxicity. It's not hard to tell the difference between a well-RPd kidnapping and just being a miserable asshole.

Edited by Kowalski
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11 hours ago, Ghost0fDawn said:



Nobody likes jail because you can't do anything, its AFK and make a sandwich time. Being downed is the same thing, there is nothing you can do beyond roll your eyes and set a 10 minute timer before you alt-f4. Honestly, game mechanics that actively encourage the player to close down the game is beyond me, that's not good for player retention, if I get a 45 minute jail time I can almost say for certain I'm done with asylum for the day, because I am going to go find a different activity to go do. .
 

From what I’ve heard, max jail time is already 20 min

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Probably and unpopular opinion (IDC really) and already said somewhere in the wall of text but here's my idea. 

Take away the MX... Give the SPAR16 to BHs (Only legal to BHs)

imho the SPAR16 is an equal competitor of the MX albeit a lower caliber. 

Reduce the bonuses of the talents just a touch or not at all (I never had an issue with them) then voila. 

 

I remember a time where bounty hunters didn't even HAVE talents nor an MX. There were still plenty of them roaming around the server. 

Go back to its roots and go from there

Edited by Raza
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9 hours ago, Defragments said:

And I think processing a plate reduces time by like 25 seconds each. No reason to complain about jail times anymore when you can get out less than half the time now.

yeah crazy how everyone is complaining about jail time when its already been reduced. (I dont even play the server and I knew that was a thing).

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-Some people like to engage in combat without killing.

-Most of the people that want it removed probably just don't like being caught. If you can't beat a Civ with an MX, you arent going to beat a cop so stop crying. 

-The whole goal is to allow capture of criminals outside of the confines of what the police can accomplish, while role playing it. 

-It allows a different play style than the classic fight cops or fight at cartels (gets old as fuck when you have been playing this server for a while). Rebel gets pretty boring after so long. 

 

 

 

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6 hours ago, Disco Biscuits (Caliban) said:

-Some people like to engage in combat without killing.

-Most of the people that want it removed probably just don't like being caught. If you can't beat a Civ with an MX, you arent going to beat a cop so stop crying. 

-The whole goal is to allow capture of criminals outside of the confines of what the police can accomplish, while role playing it. 

-It allows a different play style than the classic fight cops or fight at cartels (gets old as fuck when you have been playing this server for a while). Rebel gets pretty boring after so long. 

 

 

 

I play both rebel and BH, it has nothing to do with being caught, especially now not with jail times finally fixed.  It's the fact that BH is too powerful for what it is.  In some ways BH is more powerful than cops.  There is no RP that comes from BH, literally none.  It's "I HAVE YOUR BOUNTY I HAVE YOUR BOUNTY HANDS UP HANDS UP" and that's it, the most you're going to get after that is a little bit of shit talk.  With cops, at least you can explain your charges and they are required to RP.

It allows for a different play style but it's ridiculous that BH was allowed to be criminals.  This was a major flaw of the BH update.  If you're going to bounty hunt then you should only be able to hunt bounties and have to stay within the law.  Having criminal BHs that have little consequence ( I.E not being sent straight to jail for abusing BH license like back in the day ) is just a horrible idea.  If you play BH then you should be going for bounties and if you want to break laws then you should be sent straight to jail.  If you want to go commit crimes and rob people then the game should pretty much be forcing you to play rebel.

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2 hours ago, Elaiscancer said:

I play both rebel and BH, it has nothing to do with being caught, especially now not with jail times finally fixed.  It's the fact that BH is too powerful for what it is.  In some ways BH is more powerful than cops.  There is no RP that comes from BH, literally none.  It's "I HAVE YOUR BOUNTY I HAVE YOUR BOUNTY HANDS UP HANDS UP" and that's it, the most you're going to get after that is a little bit of shit talk.  With cops, at least you can explain your charges and they are required to RP.

To be fair, there is little RP from rival rebels when there's time/money on the line. Like you said, no RP, literally none. It's "Out of the HEMTT/Tempest/Orca hands up or die." You either die and get your meth/truck sold or you surrender, get ziptied and left for 15 min and get your meth/truck sold. It's a double standard, and the reality is, whether you're a cop, BH, rebel, or (hardened) solo civ, when you're making that money, there's little room for BS and you're gonna do whatever it takes to plunder that sweet bounty/shipment. Yes, there's a lot of great RP when people are just fucking around (especially if their bank is comfortably thicc.) At the end of the day, however, the biggest threat to any Asylum player is getting in the way of another player trying to make money.

I still think that DMV camping and insta-jailing insurance fraud and BS charges needs to be addressed, but if you have a massive bounty from going on a killing spree, then it only makes sense for people to bring you down, especially when cops determine it isn't worth their time to take on mega-gangs and go issue traffic tickets to civvies instead.

 

2 hours ago, Elaiscancer said:

not being sent straight to jail for abusing BH license like back in the day

Now THIS is bullshit. I've been absent and I didn't know this was a thing. Why did they take the risk out of BH like that? It's a super fucking lucrative career path that should come with risk of serious repercussions (not even that serious since jail times are reduced now.) Back to the rebel analogy, think about the monetary/time risk of doing a meth run, and how much you lose if SHTF. BH only needs to invest what, the license, a modestly-priced loadout, and a sport hatch for potential massive gains...easily attainable if they're willing to be an asshole to get it.

Might as well rename BH to Untouchable Griefer if there's no risk associated with being a shithead now.

Edited by Kowalski
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8 hours ago, Elaiscancer said:

I play both rebel and BH, it has nothing to do with being caught, especially now not with jail times finally fixed.  It's the fact that BH is too powerful for what it is.  In some ways BH is more powerful than cops.  There is no RP that comes from BH, literally none.  It's "I HAVE YOUR BOUNTY I HAVE YOUR BOUNTY HANDS UP HANDS UP" and that's it, the most you're going to get after that is a little bit of shit talk.  With cops, at least you can explain your charges and they are required to RP.

It allows for a different play style but it's ridiculous that BH was allowed to be criminals.  This was a major flaw of the BH update.  If you're going to bounty hunt then you should only be able to hunt bounties and have to stay within the law.  Having criminal BHs that have little consequence ( I.E not being sent straight to jail for abusing BH license like back in the day ) is just a horrible idea.  If you play BH then you should be going for bounties and if you want to break laws then you should be sent straight to jail.  If you want to go commit crimes and rob people then the game should pretty much be forcing you to play rebel.

(Long reply)

I agree that if you abuse the license it should be straight to jail. That would need conclusive evidence though (such as the cops seeing you lock pick or downing an officer intentionally).

IMO you should be able to play as a good or bad BH based on what you want to do. Cops have stringent rules for a reason. BH can not seize any vehicle or drugs from players & receive money for this. BH are less likely to bust a whole gang working the drug fields or en-route to a cartel. In total they make a lot less money than the cops do.

Cop life after so long just equates to jumping through hoops like a monkey to actually catch someone & punish them and pandering to egos for a chance at promotions. They also have a larger force, better health stats, better gear the higher they go at a cheaper price. It is a balance with BH; whereas the BH is limited in numbers, gear and what they get out of actually taking someone down.

Want to hunt criminals cops have a hard time tracking or getting to? Go for it. Might need a group of friends though. (Some high value bounties only roll in groups, cops cant get them the majority of time. You wont find that player running drugs, they will clear their bounty before that if they are smart)

Want to rob some poor sap and kidnap him while he is farming his drugs? Want to troll the cops while they are fighting a prison ? By all means, those should be options too.

Rebel = roll up and merc someone

BH =- knock someone out, have a chance to actually talk to (or be verbally abused) the victim for the lawls. (Downing people; while avoiding getting a murder charge you still have to deal with restraining someone and them giving info to teamm8s. It has its own challenges that just killing someone doesn't provide). 

Only real issue I see is the base BH guns are boring. I re-classed just to have some fun and using the TRG is aids.

 

If you remove BH (or nerf it to the degree people dont want to play it) just remove all the other bullshit civ stuff people dont bother with (or rarely do) and make this a combat RP server.

It seems the people that want that are the vocal few; wanting it to be just  Farm Drugs > Fight cartels (so your name can be on the map & swing that dick around) > Fight cops when cartels are not being fought. That doesn't leave much for the folks in the middle even though this has always been a conversation this server has had.

I like the combat, Altis life was more entertaining to be than Arma Life because of this. However, diversity is really the key. People doing the same shit every day gets old and makes it easy to move on to another server/game. Allow them dynamic play styles with different ways to make $$$ and have their fun.

Im just giving the perspective there is more to just rolling around killing folks. If a group of rebels downed me and actually RPed or bullshitted for a few before killing me it may at least find that entertaining. Getting juan tapped as soon as I drive into rebel (or what ever illegal area) isnt really fun. I mean its not something that really would bother me but there just is no substance to that game play.

If you are only after fights, yes, that may be fun then. But as I said in my previous comment, after having been on Asylum for like over 5 years, cartels and just stomping people isnt really "fun" or something to do long term. I play KOTH for that.

It's not really about the bounties anyway (maybe for some who dont have much cash, but not the majority), its the interaction and play style that is the allure (at least for me). 

 

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Just now, ron [unreformed] said:

so if I shoot someone or kidnap a cop I need to be sent straight to jail? this is kind of bullshit 

No, abusing the license. Downing cops, kidnapping people, robbing cars. Maybe kidnapping cops should have its own charge or something. Jail isnt even that bad these days. Back in the day it was an hour max, that taught you a lesson. Now your in and out in 20 mins. Go take a shit or rub one out and you will be out by the time you get back.

 

If you assist a cop  in a firefight I would hope you can walk away form that with no issue.  Unless you were told to leave or got caught in the cross fire. As an APD office i can say usually I would not charge Bh that helped in a fight or at least explained what they were doing there.

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