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Clarification on revenge killing.


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So I caught a ban for revenge killing a nerd that shot me getting into my car in Athira. I spawned into my house, grabbed a gun and killed him.

My logic was that after he killed me, he is initiated with my gang, I had two gang members on at the time. I know that I am a new player when I respawn, but no different than if I just logged in and my gang is fighting someone, I am initiated too. So hes clear to kill with no further initiation.

He whined that I revenge killed him and I rightfully told him to lick the sweat from my old nuts.

Well, the admin agreed and I caught a 1 day. When I spoke to the admin I explained my logic...... he kills me, my gang in initiated with him, so therefor so am I, new player or not. He couldn't explain to me the flaw in my logic and lifted the ban.

So then wouldnt it make sense to remove revenge killing from the rules? When does revenge killing apply then? What if I wake up in the hospital......is it revenge killing then? If revenge killing is a thing, is my gang initiated with the enemy but I am not?

 

These are the things I want to know!!!

Edited by Hoodlum Priest
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It was explained to me like this,

ex. Player A is in Kavala no gang or group, player B is in Kavala no gang no group. Player A initiated with player B, player A kills player B. If player B decides to re-spawn in Kavala, player A is still initiated with player B, but player B needs to reinitiate with player A to kill him. The 5 minutes resets every time player A kills player B.

ex2. If you get groups involved it was explained slightly different. Player A is in Kavala no gang or group, player B is in Kavala in a group with player C. Player A initiated with player B, player A kills player B. As long as Player C is in the Radius which I believe is something like 2km? When player B spawns back in Kavala, he is still initiated with Player A due to the fact player C is still involved and alive in the situation. 

If its group on group fighting the minute a group is completely wiped they would have to re-initiate with the other group that killed them again, but that group is still initiated with you after you re-spawn.

Keep in mind if your gang or group mates are across the map, and your alone in the city they are technically not involved, I'm sure we can get someone to clarify the radius of initiation with gang/group mates.

Not sure about the hospital re-spawning..

This is the way it was explained to me by mods and support. I think they could improve explaining this to players and clarify on the NLR rules that do but dont exist on the server.

@Hoodlum Priest

Edited by Kraken
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Ah this got someone in Bamboo banned once.  Totally not a stupid rule that gets people banned for very dumb reasons

31 minutes ago, Kraken said:

 

When explained like this it just shows it hurts solo players who otherwise would've done nothing wrong if they had a friend on close to the area.  Again, when you have five minutes initiation this rule makes no sense...and I'm pretty sure that the person who killed you does not have to initiate again, but you have to 

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19 minutes ago, Sheriff Rick said:

Ah this got someone in Bamboo banned once.  Totally not a stupid rule that gets people banned for very dumb reasons

When explained like this it just shows it hurts solo players who otherwise would've done nothing wrong if they had a friend on close to the area.  Again, when you have five minutes initiation this rule makes no sense...and I'm pretty sure that the person who killed you does not have to initiate again, but you have to 

It is flawed in my eyes, if the person came back and killed someone that killed them you would have to have video proof that someone in your group or gang was nearby if you were reported. Because its just going to look like your came back and rdm'd them. It also doesn't make sense that there is no NLR rule on this server but you have to re-initiate with the same person that just killed you. As far as i know this information is not shared in the rules at all. I typically explain how that works to new players because how else do they figure that out. After playing on this server for some time i just found out a few months ago that's how it actually works.  

Edited by Kraken
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the biggest issue is that a lot of the rules on the server either arent written anywhere or are written but open to interpretation, which can be frustrating when different admins do different things. Many of the new mods and admins dont even know a lot of the rules that well but seem really happy to take action on any report they deal with 

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10 minutes ago, 王 rando 王 said:

nigga if you shoot me in kavala I’m spawning back and clapping them cheeks, ban or no ban, you’re gonna move to a new city.

He might be moving cities at that point but I'm pretty sure you would be moving islands lol.

Then again rats stay in packs so the re-initiation wouldn't apply. 

Lets Go Reaction GIF by Mason Ramsey

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4 hours ago, Hoodlum Priest said:

So I caught a ban for revenge killing a nerd that shot me getting into my car in Athira. I spawned into my house, grabbed a gun and killed him.

My logic was that after he killed me, he is initiated with my gang, I had two gang members on at the time. I know that I am a new player when I respawn, but no different than if I just logged in and my gang is fighting someone, I am initiated too. So hes clear to kill with no further initiation.

He whined that I revenge killed him and I rightfully told him to lick the sweat from my old nuts.

Well, the admin agreed and I caught a 1 day. When I spoke to the admin I explained my logic...... he kills me, my gang in initiated with him, so therefor so am I, new player or not. He couldn't explain to me the flaw in my logic and lifted the ban.

So then wouldnt it make sense to remove revenge killing from the rules? When does revenge killing apply then? What if I wake up in the hospital......is it revenge killing then? If revenge killing is a thing, is my gang initiated with the enemy but I am not?

 

These are the things I want to know!!!

Hello Sir, Admin Blake here to clarify your confusion. If you die and have gang mates within initiation range/get hospital/get res'd its not revenge killing and is allowed.

however if you were to be alone in a town and die respawn and kill someone this would be against the rules.

your ban was probably lifted because the admin saw your side about your friends being in the area.

Thank you for reaching out! 

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6 minutes ago, Blake. said:

Hello Sir, Admin Blake here to clarify your confusion. If you die and have gang mates within initiation range/get hospital/get res'd its not revenge killing and is allowed.

however if you were to be alone in a town and die respawn and kill someone this would be against the rules.

your ban was probably lifted because the admin saw your side about your friends being in the area.

Thank you for reaching out! 

What is the radius? I know someone told me before is it something like 2 or 2.5kms?

Niklaus likes this
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10 minutes ago, Blake. said:

Hello Sir, Admin Blake here to clarify your confusion. If you die and have gang mates within initiation range/get hospital/get res'd its not revenge killing and is allowed.

however if you were to be alone in a town and die respawn and kill someone this would be against the rules.

your ban was probably lifted because the admin saw your side about your friends being in the area.

Thank you for reaching out! 

Why is this even a rule?  No wonder people just get their kills in the report section

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52 minutes ago, Blake. said:

Hello Sir, Admin Blake here to clarify your confusion. If you die and have gang mates within initiation range/get hospital/get res'd its not revenge killing and is allowed.

however if you were to be alone in a town and die respawn and kill someone this would be against the rules.

your ban was probably lifted because the admin saw your side about your friends being in the area.

Thank you for reaching out! 

So if I am a new person and I cant revenge kill him, why is he allowed to kill me without initiating again? Im a new person......why isnt that RDM?

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7 minutes ago, InnateSmells said:

doesn't actually exist unless you want to argue that you should be able to travel to a person you are initiated with in 5 minutes for initiation to actually matter, red names only show for within ~2km(?) for performance reasons afaik

Im pretty sure i  was told a while back there is a radius for initiation. For reason like, if someone initiates with cops or a gang in pyrgos and then respawns in Kavala and there happens to be other cops or gang members that aren't involved with what happened in pyrgos you cant just kill them as they would have no clue whats going on. I could be wrong but i thought it was explained that way. Also I just realized Blake said there is and i hope he knows what hes talking about. lol

Edited by Kraken
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26 minutes ago, InnateSmells said:

Doesn't matter what someone says unless its actually in the rules or the grey area thread, that shit is easy to appeal if theres no rule you break. If someone dies and respawns initiation doesn't carry over obviously, thats an actual documented rule. I could text "hands up or die" to someone who is standing right next to their gangmate but it turns out they are afk, still valid initiation even though they have no clue what is going on. No one is infallible especially blake, that guy is Canadian.

Can you show me where in the rules it shows after you or your group is wiped you have to re initiate? I have yet to find it. That's why this thread was created because its not written anywhere to my knowledge. As for the initiation if someone is afk, I get what your saying but that's a different circumstance. How often are people in the same comms if they are half way across the map making money or doing other shit. In a roleplay sense they would be involved in that situation as they are in the same town, being on the other side of the map is completely different IMO. If I'm told by the staff its a rule I'm going off of that. Initiation would carry over if your still have a group or gang mate alive in the initiation range btw.

Dont know why you had to bring the fact hes Canadian into this, i find that highly offensive. lol

Just imagine being gunned down in Sofia when your minding your own business because your gangmate shot someone in Kavala, it makes no sense. 

Edited by Kraken
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9 minutes ago, InnateSmells said:

Exact same circumstance, person initiated on doesn't inform their group of the initiation. In your example theres no way an admin would ban for the sofia vs kavala kill considering it shows in the log in the evidence that [Group A Tag] Group A Member was killed by [Group B Tag] Group B Member

I see where your coming from buts that not how I've been explained to from staff before. You seem like you know your shit but id rather hear it from someone like @Mitch (IFRIT) so we can close this topic lol

11 minutes ago, InnateSmells said:

But the exception is if there are gangmates or group mates still alive in the area it is still ok to come back and kill them without re initiation as there is still an active situation, again... from my understanding and how its was explained to me by staff. 

15 minutes ago, InnateSmells said:

Sounds like you're Canadian

 Sorry

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17 minutes ago, InnateSmells said:

You specifically said wiped, which is when revenge killing would not be allowed as the situation is over

Yes I was restating the fact that, in that circumstance it is okay. And not considered RDM. 

But the term revenge killing is pretty vague to new players and doesn't explain the group situation IMO, again that's why this post was made. 

 

My point that I'm still arguing is the range of initiation that I think needs to be clarified. 

Edited by Kraken
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1 hour ago, Kraken said:

Can you show me where in the rules it shows after you or your group is wiped you have to re initiate? I have yet to find it. That's why this thread was created because its not written anywhere to my knowledge. As for the initiation if someone is afk, I get what your saying but that's a different circumstance. How often are people in the same comms if they are half way across the map making money or doing other shit. In a roleplay sense they would be involved in that situation as they are in the same town, being on the other side of the map is completely different IMO. If I'm told by the staff its a rule I'm going off of that. Initiation would carry over if your still have a group or gang mate alive in the initiation range btw.

Dont know why you had to bring the fact hes Canadian into this, i find that highly offensive. lol

Just imagine being gunned down in Sofia when your minding your own business because your gangmate shot someone in Kavala, it makes no sense. 

There is initiation range and it’s like 2.5km(not 100% on the distance) it is loosely enforced though. And why are people complaining now? This has been this way for years now.

Edited by Farmer Steve
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1 hour ago, Farmer Steve said:

There is initiation range and it’s like 2.5km(not 100% on the distance) it is loosely enforced though. And why are people complaining now? This has been this way for years now.

Initiation range makes sense.  You shouldn't be able to clap a cop in Pyrgos because your buddy killed one in Kavala

Revenge killing is rarely enforced but when it is something someone does get banned for it's incredibly lame.  Before I knew someone who got banned for it I thought it  was referred to using an excuse such as "Well he killed me an hour ago so I killed him on sight".  It really shouldn't be a rule and the only type of person it benefits is someone who fucks with someone and then wants to cry to admins when it didn't go their way.

At the very least it is poorly defined...which is also why people who play report wars don't think try and get someone banned for it.  It shouldn't be a rule though because idk why you would want to ban someone who isn't even acting malicious.  Also I'm pretty sure the person who shot you would appear red for you too which contradicts red = dead

 

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4 hours ago, InnateSmells said:

Doesn't need to be clarified, doesnt exist

There is almost no case where it would be able to be enforced

I mis-understood i was thinking of the range for the revenge killing if you have group or gang members near by. Not the range for intiation which doesnt exist. I dun messed up.

Edited by Kraken
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