APD RP Concerns

[D the G]

Is it just me, or has the roleplay aspect of the APD gone downhill the past few months with an influx of so many new cadets? I've tried conversing with the cops multiple times after being arrested, giving them well thought-out storylines to try to have fun with the RP aspect of Asylum (the best part in my opinion) and I get robocopped pretty consistently. It seems like most cops currently only care about making money. I've also noticed that a scary amount of cadets and even new constables aren't very confident with the rules. I got arrested the other day and the constable on the scene (training a cadet no less) charged me with Attempted Manslaughter even though I killed the last person I shot at. When I explained the situation to him, he seemed oblivious as to what I was even talking about. It was very disappointing, since I've had so many great interactions in the past with officers who really know their stuff as they should. I asked for a higher up and he explained to his Lieutenant that I shot at he and his cadet, not really explaining the situation accurately. Of course, with that information the Lieutenant denied my request. Later on I tried to help some friends that were being detained, and halfway into my story (only about a minute in) the Cadet interrupted me and started reading my charges. He pretended at that point that I wasn't talking, read my charges, gave me my ticket, and sent me to jail mid-sentence. I remember the day when the APD had a higher standard for role-play and set a good example to the rest of the community. Now, the ratio of great police officers to glorified civs with a badge is very disappointing. It's all about the money, and I really miss the old days of APD quality control. What are your thoughts, fellow citizens?

[Buckwalter]

Yes and no.

Yes, the RP doesn't seem as good or as consistent as it did in the old days. Maybe that's just golden age thinking though. Undeniably, you can end up with some pretty abysmal APD interactions. Even as an admin when the money is no longer the primary concern, I've had a handful of interactions that were infuriating and demoralizing. Sadly those things do happen. Whenever you deal with the cops, there is always a chance that the person you get just isn't inclined or able to RP very well.

However, frustrating as it might be, this is the nature of a player driven faction like the APD. Everybody is after something different when playing, some are looking for fun interpersonal interaction and fun casual combat, others want to roleplay as a law and order hardass who is going to jail you for a single vehicular. It's always been this way and it seems to have a cumulative effect(Officers with poor RP train cadets to RP poorly). The APD's direction has also shifted greatly in terms of procedure as well as the underlying "esprit de corps" and that has been reflected in the training and staff. That shift has generally been towards a more stern, combat oriented approach. Which is fine and was certainly borne of the immense shit kicking the APD received daily during the era of super gangs. Though now that it's over, I'd like to see the APD return to it's RP-centric roots. Or at least marry the two. 

To be clear however, I'm not shitting on the APD. There are a great number of absolutely excellent officers and higher ups that work really hard to make the APD run smoothly and to make players' interactions as fun as possible. Some go to very far in their efforts to bring amusing and fun RP to the table. These are the people we need more of and need in higher places. And now that Snatch is COP, I'm pretty confident we'll see a move in that direction. 

As for the specific incident you mentioned, as someone who has been on both sides of the "attempted manslaughter" debate more times than I can count, I can tell you that it's a losing battle every time. It just ends up being a fog of war situation most of the time and since everybody makes the same case that they succeeded in killing everyone they fired at, that contention isn't given much weight by the officers involved. Also, in 99% of those cases, neither party is entirely sure. It's a firefight, people aren't sure if they're being shot at or the guy next to them or conversely if they only shot the guy they killed or if they also popped shots at another guy. Please don't take instances like this to heart, it's not malicious 99% of the time (sometimes you'll get the rare dick who adds it out of spite). 

 

TL;DR: APD still pretty good, seems like it used to be better. Pressure Snatch to reinforce the importance of RP at all levels. 

[NotSoNutty]

I don't really play Civ but if I do I can have great RP with some cops. Not all the APD officers are good at RP and Asylum isn't a hardcore RP server. Besides that, Cadets are here to learn and Constables can make mistakes to.

Yes, a lot of officers that also play civ do care about the money and forget about having RP with the civ's while playing cop. I want it to be fun for everyone so RP is really important to me and I keep telling this to the officers i'm playing with. Don't rush the processing proces, just have a great time!

[OgreTV]

You'll always count on Ogre to try to RP with someone in an active gunfight. Ask a few people that did bank recently -- trying to talk someone to come down ladder for cookies and icecream and 50% ticket guaranteed at the least!

 

With that said, depends on which officers you run into honestly, and there are a lot of fine veterans that will try to find a cadet and be good examples to them so that the tradition will carry. Ogre is one of those people. 

 

Your every day reminder folks: Golden Rule, Don't be a dick!

[D the G]

    Excellent response Buckwalter, I totally agree and I see where you're coming from. I've always been of the mindset that although Asylum isn't a hardcore RP server, it's the one that holds itself to the highest standard in my experience. As a former whitelisted member of A3L (what a disappointment) and a RP lover myself, it doesn't get much better than this.

    I say all this stuff as a fan of the genre and the servers. It's just something I've noticed over time, and I'm glad to hear that Snatch is more involved in the APD. There are plenty other servers out there to shoot people if you want, but the RP aspect is what I'm really after. I love the depth and the amount of rules honestly, because it's taken a lot of time to arrive at where we are now and the servers are constantly evolving. It's something really special, and I hope to see it continue to improve over time as I know it will.

    I think stressing the importance of RP for the APD should be a priority, because that creates a really special experience for the civilians (especially newcomers) and police alike. I remember the first time I was pulled over for speeding - what a great interaction. It was everything I was looking for! I personally think that RP should be the primary concern and officers should be subject to more scrutiny concerning RP initiation and cooperation because of these very reasons. It's sad to make efforts that not only lack much reciprocation but are downright ignored. Due to the amount of money that officers can make, it can be easy to fall into the good ol' grinding trap as an officer and rush processing to get on to the next bounty. I by no means say that as a blanket statement, and I appreciate the efforts that officers like NotSoNutty and other amazing players bring to the table.

    Thanks for the replies guys! I was interested to see what everybody thinks about the subject, as I've seen my share of complaints lately about this very thing. I wanted to post on the forums to get some thoughtful feedback, and thanks again for delivering.

[OgreTV]

D G's concerns is valid about RP being important as white listed officers, the motto is, "we represent the community". If we don't try our best to keep situations fun for everyone involved, well, it just becomes pewpew between all factions. Of course, that said, sadly it will take a great effort from all sides and it's encouraged people try better to come up with funny scenarios for processing or dealing with criminals. Don't give up the good fight if your out there struggling.

[Mc Duushe]

I can honestly say I've stopped playing cop for the time being and taking a small break from Asylum just because of how things have gone down hill to a degree.

 

I was simply processing people per my usual " People will be people, let them have fun seize their guns and pardon/parole them. " even with shit standards of rp given to me on their part. I've pardon'd people for screaming utter salt at me while I remained my usual Mc Duushe self and just nodding. But over the course of 2-3 weeks I've been bitched at for Paroling people or pardoning them, told I was a shit cop and that good old " No wonder you aren't a Corporal anymore" line in my face a few times.

I am no Grade A rper, I am a shit shot and for the love of god don't try to throw me into politics of the APD but I am a champion of the people. I am a tired champion.., tired of seeing robocops. Cops who take pride in jabbing a sharp knife into their fellow officers back just for " Brownie points " or " OMGURD I AM GONNA GET PROMOTED FOR THIS Fapfapfapfapfap " personalities.

This isn't the APD I was proud to be on 40-50+ hours a week trying to make it a better place. Maybe it will return with the new higher ups but.. I am not holding my breath for too long.

[Buckwalter]

On 3/13/2016 at 11:00 PM, D the G said:

I've always been of the mindset that although Asylum isn't a hardcore RP server, it's the one that holds itself to the highest standard in my experience.

    I say all this stuff as a fan of the genre and the servers. It's just something I've noticed over time, and I'm glad to hear that Snatch is more involved in the APD. There are plenty other servers out there to shoot people if you want, but the RP aspect is what I'm really after. I love the depth and the amount of rules honestly, because it's taken a lot of time to arrive at where we are now and the servers are constantly evolving. It's something really special, and I hope to see it continue to improve over time as I know it will.

    I think stressing the importance of RP for the APD should be a priority, because that creates a really special experience for the civilians (especially newcomers) and police alike.

I'm in complete agreement that Asylum generally exudes good roleplay despite the less stringent standards. As I'm sure we've both experienced in other more strict communities, such exacting standards only serve to codify RP and make it feel like the officer is reading from a script. So in many ways Asylum's more free-form approach really allows creative, unique and fun RP scenarios where you don't have to worry about being banned for deviating.

Sadly, the other consequence is that it allows those less interested in player interaction the ability to cut corners while remaining within the rules. Just the nature of the beast I suppose. And this minimal RP, shortcut, method that we used to call "Rock-Paper-Ticket" is something that probably won't ever be entirely eliminated. But it can be discouraged, the best way to do that is to train cadets with RP in mind and really reinforce the notion that when playing as an APD officer you're a steward of the community, providing a utility for the playerbase and you're there to create enjoyable experiences for others as much as for yourself. 

And it used to be like that to a larger extent, most officers had a pretty laid back demeanor and were willing to overlook just about any crime as long as you treated them well and told a great story. Back in the very old days they would even let you keep your gun if you had superb RP, though this practice was eventually outlawed. I'm personally of the belief that this shift in APD mentality was equal parts reaction to super gangs, reaction to policy/leadership changes that came about during that era, and reaction to shifting gameplay mechanics. 

For example around two years ago when I joined the APD, most cops were very easy going and very lenient with anyone who roleplayed well. There were still some who were just trying to finance their civ exploits and gave everyone the biggest possible ticket in the shortest amount of time, but it was pretty rare. So in an attempt to try and curb this money hungry behavior, cop payouts were reduced considerably in hopes that now people wouldn't play cop for the money. However this instead resulted in people being even more strict and more liberal with adding charges. This was just one in a long line of well meaning changes that had unintended consequences. Cops were made to buy their loadouts in hopes of reducing zerging, then cops started zerging with stings and being even more concerned about money and were more likely to treat someone poorly if they lost their loadout. There are several other notable examples but I don't want to belabor the point. 

The other policy issue I think has proven to be a severe detriment to RP is that the emphasis on spreading cops across the map has waned significantly over time. This came as a direct result of the massive groups super gangs often played in. Cops quickly began using this same tactic to try and withstand these engagements. But now that gang sizes are much more reasonable, cops still frequently roll around in one large posse, hopping from engagement to engagement and it results in minimal RP since no one wants to hold up the group. This is obviously harmful in that regard, but all of the excellent interaction with regular civilians around the map is lost when every cop on the server is piled into a single Huron jumping from firefight to firefight. Back in the day, it was small groups of 2-6 officers in each patrol zone. You would respond to back up calls and group up for the fed, but the force was evenly spread and had a much higher degree of interaction with regular civilians. 

Anyway, I'm rambling now haha. This is a topic that has always been of great interest and subsequently great concern to me. I feel that the combination of changes to policy and its enforcement, along with monetary concerns have led to the less roleplay oriented style of policing we see today. And honestly another factor, which I've neglected in this post, is the shift in the overall mindset of many in the community. There is a much higher rate of animosity towards other players, the friendly rivalries of years past have given way to the bitter blood feuds we see today. Sadly, that contempt often bleeds into cop play and hinders RP considerably. Which is perhaps the best argument for playing civ and cop on separate servers. 

So to wrap up this extremely long post, as I see it the best solution here is training cops to consider RP of paramount importance, constructing policy that rewards officers who are consistently excellent in this regard, resume enforcement of spread out policy, remove/reduce financial incentives to avoid RP (pardons still pay or something), and remind APD officers that they are stewards of the community providing a service to the playerbase and that RP is the cornerstone of that service. There are still a hell of a lot of great cops and great higher ups and they deserve a lot of recognition for refusing to take shortcuts and for going the extra mile to ensure the players they encounter have a great time. We salute you awesome cops. You make the game fun. Which is really the whole point; to have fun. 

TL;DR: Myriad policy/gameplay changes have had negative effect on RP. Many in the APD are still absolutely awesome in this regard. Would be good if RP was given a larger degree of importance like it used to. Times change, that's inevitable but let's not lose sight of what made asylum so amazing in the first place. 

 

[IAmLegion]

35 minutes ago, Mc Duushe said:

I can honestly say I've stopped playing cop for the time being and taking a small break from Asylum just because of how things have gone down hill to a degree.

 

I was simply processing people per my usual " People will be people, let them have fun seize their guns and pardon/parole them. " even with shit standards of rp given to me on their part. I've pardon'd people for screaming utter salt at me while I remained my usual Mc Duushe self and just nodding. But over the course of 2-3 weeks I've been bitched at for Paroling people or pardoning them, told I was a shit cop and that good old " No wonder you aren't a Corporal anymore" line in my face a few times.

I am no Grade A rper, I am a shit shot and for the love of god don't try to throw me into politics of the APD but I am a champion of the people. I am a tired champion.., tired of seeing robocops. Cops who take pride in jabbing a sharp knife into their fellow officers back just for " Brownie points " or " OMGURD I AM GONNA GET PROMOTED FOR THIS Fapfapfapfapfap " personalities.

This isn't the APD I was proud to be on 40-50+ hours a week trying to make it a better place. Maybe it will return with the new higher ups but.. I am not holding my breath for too long.

i play a long time on asylum community and i have to agree here whit mc duushe. and Buckwalter ya right 

"How people treat you is their karma; how you react is yours."- Wayne Dyer

 

[Reavantos]

Buckwalter pretty much hit the mail on the head. The supergang issue forced the APD to "tense up" a bit. That issue has long past though. I do agree that the APD needs to relax and be more RP-centric. As white listed officers we should set the standard. That being said people can have bad days. Keep in mind we are still REQUIRED to respond to certain events and some gangs like to do those events continuously. The reason i bring that up is some people just dont do well with the mental transition from the big fight back to normal duties / RP. (not sure what to do about that issue). However, a good RP and a joke works 60% of the time, every time.  

 

But, if the officer(s) continue to straight up robocop you, Please find a SGT+ and let them know. We cant fix issues if we dont know they exist.   

 

And if you feel your rights were violated or a officer did something he shouldn't. Please, please make a IA report. I know they are tedious but they help the community as a whole.

 

 

Edited March 13, 2016 by Reavantos

[Reformed epTic]

31 minutes ago, Reavantos said:

That issue has long past though. I do agree that the APD needs to

 

2 orcas full fighting 3 cops says otherwise 

[Linki]

I agree, too many robot cops and btw, too many cops that put charges on you that are not even valid. Like putting attempted manslaughter on someone that already killed the person.

[Reformed epTic]

13 minutes ago, Linki said:

I agree, too many robot cops and btw, too many cops that put charges on you that are not even valid. Like putting attempted manslaughter on someone that already killed the person.

If you shoot at 2 people, and only kill one...you still get attempted manslaughter. 

[Bama]

A lot of blame is put on APD for bad RP but i notice both parties can be at fault just try to be creative and have fun.

[Reformed epTic]

4 minutes ago, Bama said:

A lot of blame is put on APD for bad RP but i notice both parties can be at fault just try to be creative and have fun.

I love to RP with people and give them pardons, but so many rebels have the attitude of "PIGGY OINK OINK FUCK THE APD" or the stereotypical self defense stories. 

 

Hell, I got questioned for negotiating with 2 rebels who had stolen a HEMTT...gave em 15k and 20 donuts and got the civs HEMTT back when the other cops had gotten wiped by them 3 or 4 times lol9

Edited March 13, 2016 by epTic

[Bama]

Not everyone is gonna give you great RP  like buck walter said people play for different reasons but as long as you have fun and stay positive it will leave that door open for great RP.

Even try making your own persona for one I'm known for my Dictator of stratis RP. Which usually everyone enjoys most of the time but we all have to remember to have fun and enjoy, everything this great community of asylum has to offer.

[Zoex]

6 minutes ago, Bama said:

have fun and enjoy everything this great community of asylum has to offer.

This pretty much sums up everything ^



Attempt making the best out of your gameplay experience, not everyone will be perfect when it comes to their roleplay, we attempt to wipe people are not worthy at the Application/interview parts of the APD, and some people do pass it and follow the rules but they abuse grey areas and do not make the best to make sure roleplay is their main target, this is where our hands as Staff are tied and there is nothing much that is able to be done.

However, our new CoP @Snatch has a top priority right now, which is improving the Roleplay quality within the APD.

Edited March 13, 2016 by Zoex

[Reformed epTic]

6 minutes ago, Bama said:

remember to have fun and enjoy, everything this great community of asylum has to offer.

I love the AIDs and cancer that Kavala has to offer  

[Haych]

I came from a stricter roleplay community where 'baiting' cops or having to much combat will get you Community Banned and believe me, the roleplay the APD produces here blows the other communities police role-play out the water. People get creative on Asylum and role-play tends to be very fun if you meet the right people. Consider it amazing especially when Asylum is heavy on its combat culture and doesn't force strict roleplay.

But as expected, just like every other community, the new recruits will always have problems within the force.

[Sheriff Rick Grimes]

Imo, the only server that's really bad about this is server 6 because some cops want money and talents.  Usually you'll get a fair shot if you have a good story on the other servers.

[Mike Stmria]

12 minutes ago, Sheriff Rick Grimes said:

Imo, the only server that's really bad about this is server 6 because some cops want money and talents.  Usually you'll get a fair shot if you have a good story on the other servers.

Unfortunately this is happening because it's nee, but it's a matter of time, I see a whole new RP  world on s6 due to his nature 

[Midamaru]

18 hours ago, epTic said:

2 orcas full fighting 3 cops says otherwise 

A special person deserves a special treatment! 

[Reformed epTic]

14 minutes ago, Midamaru said:

A special person deserves a special treatment! 

 

Too bad SWAT doesn't work half the time, their hovering Orcas would become hovering debris

[Midamaru]

1 minute ago, epTic said:

 

Too bad SWAT doesn't work half the time, their hovering Orcas would become hovering debris

Shots fired!

[Midamaru]

RP is a rare gem we should all appreciate more than we do. 

RP levels are low in general but the APD could be a prime example of how it should be done as it's supposed to do.

Go team Snatch!