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Suggestion: Mandatory Response Time for Ban Appeals


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Situation

I had two bounties restrained in my prowler. While they were in the prowler they both started shooting their pistols at the police. One cadet came out, shot my prowler (in his defense he didn't know they were restrained) which initiated the aggression system. I noticed that they were red and immediately downed the officers. One of the officers thought that they were not initiated and reported me for RDM. Which led me to being banned on March 27, 2017 for 7 Days

Issue

Posted my appeal on March 27, 2017. Didn't receive a response from banning admin until March 29 two days later. Immediately responded to the admin the same day to figure out who I RDMed. Did not receive a response until a day later March 30 from the admin. Which refreshed my memory and I again immediately responded with video evidence. It is now April 2 three days after video evidence was provided by me and have yet to receive a response. My ban is over tomorrow. The video evidence is pretty clear that the aggression system was activated before I downed the officers. (Total time with unresolved ban appeal 6 days)

Suggestion

If admins go on leave or are away for a substantial amount of time ban appeals should be allowed to be taken over by other active admins. Especially if the video evidence is pretty clear that the suspect is not in the wrong. 

 

Please do not delete, or flame this is a serious post. 

@Olio @Volunteer281

Edited by CPT Morgan
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Steve, Space, Kettles and 15 others like this
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I understand your frustration, and waiting for too long can be irritating. But understand that admins have a lot of other things to take care of, both on this community, whereas taking care of other admin duties, and in their real life, which typically consists of a full time job /family or other time-consuming activities. 

That being said, patience is the key. It's a volunteer job, and also time consuming. Instead of blatantly mocking them, we should give them more appreciation.

Walt likes this
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1 minute ago, Heidelberg said:

I understand your frustration, and waiting for too long can be irritating. But understand that admins have a lot of other things to take care of, both on this community, whereas taking care of other admin duties, and in their real life, which typically consists of a full time job /family or other time-consuming activities. 

That being said, patience is the key. It's a volunteer job, and also time consuming. Instead of blatantly mocking them, we should give them more appreciation.

I completely understand that real life takes precedence, but they should at least allow other admins to take over the appeal if they are going to be inactive. Which at this point I do not think that is currently allowed.

Edited by CPT Morgan
added last sentence
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Any admin should be able to overturn a decision, as long as there is clear, viable proof for it. I never understood the whole "Oh this admin banned you so it has to be this admin to unban you" deal....They are all administrators, operating under the same exact rule set..

So while I do +1 this, I still feel it should be any admin at any time..not just the banning admin.

Edited by Coyote
Steve, "EJ", JimLahey and 7 others like this
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In this situation you should've got a compensation with in-game money, for the time you could be playing and making money on the server.

But making so admins can take appeals from other admins would complicate things unecessarily, it would need to a second admin check the report, maybe chat with the original admin and then he would be able to talk with you, so it would be too complicated, too slow etc.
The problem i have with making admins compensanting you if they can't resolve a issue, like a ban appeal, is it could make some admins lazy, making them just comping you instead of actually looking at your appeal and talking to you(but hey, no system is perfect).

CPT Morgan, Walt, Mr. Linux and 1 other like this
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You just have to be patient with us. We have hundreds of reports daily that we have to sift through, as well as appeals and TS talks with appeals all on top of RL duties. So it takes a bit to get to everything. Also, there is the case of players not filling out their appeal correctly and not tagging the banning admin. If you do that your appeal will get buried just because of the sheer number of posts that happen daily. Just be patient. We will get to you. 

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Just now, Legit said:

Imo it should be required to inform people that they are being reported prior to a report, 

The trouble here is how many times do you see "I'm reporting you" in chat? I see it hundreds of times a day while I am in game and even more when watching the server while out of game. People get told they are being reported all the time and of all of those hundreds I have seen maybe 2-3 actually follow through on it. we

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Just now, Buddy Martinez said:

Regardless of that, Why is it that we have to wait for the banning admin? why cant any admin decides if someone is innocent or not? and like i said i understand there are hundreds of reports but if there is 1 or 2 admins trying to resolve the problems, then why not just increase your support staff?

Because it isn't our place to over turn another admins ban. That was his decision to put the ban in place and he needs to express that to the player that was banned. Once an admin goes hands on with a ban its their baby. They have to keep up with it and deal with the appeals. 

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38 minutes ago, Berus said:

In this situation you should've got a compensation with in-game money, for the time you could be playing and making money on the server.

But making so admins can take appeals from other admins would complicate things unecessarily, it would need to a second admin check the report, maybe chat with the original admin and then he would be able to talk with you, so it would be too complicated, too slow etc.
The problem i have with making admins compensanting you if they can't resolve a issue, like a ban appeal, is it could make some admins lazy, making them just comping you instead of actually looking at your appeal and talking to you(but hey, no system is perfect).

I've asked if I would be able to get compensation for time lost if my ban was going to be appealed. Unfortunately I was dealt with a swift no.

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Just now, Dredge said:

Because it isn't our place to over turn another admins ban. That was his decision to put the ban in place and he needs to express that to the player that was banned. Once an admin goes hands on with a ban its their baby. They have to keep up with it and deal with the appeals. 

Yeah but just like CPT Morgan situation he had to wait the 7 days might as well not even do a ban appeal and not just him but i bet there are others that are in the same predicament. I see no big deal for another admin to take care of that admins decision, especially if the player is proving his innocence with evidence.

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4 minutes ago, Buddy Martinez said:

Yeah but just like CPT Morgan situation he had to wait the 7 days might as well not even do a ban appeal and not just him but i bet there are others that are in the same predicament. I see no big deal for another admin to take care of that admins decision, especially if the player is proving his innocence with evidence.

I'm really glad I had the foresight to record that encounter with the officers. 

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2 hours ago, Buddy Martinez said:

Yeah but just like CPT Morgan situation he had to wait the 7 days might as well not even do a ban appeal and not just him but i bet there are others that are in the same predicament. I see no big deal for another admin to take care of that admins decision, especially if the player is proving his innocence with evidence.

He did good doing a ban appeal, it takes his ban off the record. 

CPT Morgan likes this
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@Dredge I do feel where y'all are coming from with being busy between here and RL crap...I was in this line of work with MLG, dealing with banning people, reverting bans, dealing with live chat, etc for GameBattles. That said, we had a crew of 10 who dealt with escalations and customer support and managed to do it (without being paid [money was a bonus for excedding expectations, though in the end, wasn't much at all] and having a real life on top of it). From the outside, with the experience I do have, the system seems flawed. The fact you HAVE to wait for the banning admin is absurd. Like I said before, all administrators work under the same rule set. It shouldn't matter who denied an appeal or reversed a ban.

And to wait 6 days on an appeal for a 7 day ban? Come on guys...thats just laughable. And this is obviously a con for having to wait for the banning admin. Trying to have 2 people, who don't know each other or live near each other, try to match up their schedule so that they can get together is difficult in the best of situations. That's why, when it comes to online at least, you have to let all admins be able to handle ban appeals at a minimum..its a lot easier on the user if you want to be providing decent service to the community.

Edited by Coyote
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7 hours ago, Dredge said:

Because it isn't our place to over turn another admins ban. That was his decision to put the ban in place and he needs to express that to the player that was banned. Once an admin goes hands on with a ban its their baby. They have to keep up with it and deal with the appeals. 

That is completely understood by the community. But the fact of the matter is, when there is a video of the POV of the offender, that clearly shows innocence. We as a community should be given a right to at least have another admin review the ban during the absence of the banning admin. We are not asking for another admin to get involved in situations that are in the grey zone. Only issues that 100% without a doubt are not against the rules.

This would also increase workflow, Admins wouldn't need to go back to post that have been resolved this way.

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As Dredge said one of the main reasons the appeals take time to be looked at is the people that don't follow the format properly and specially that don't tag the banning admin. Everyone of use goes daily looking for the appeals to look for people who is appealing the ban that we have banned or people that is appealing and did't tag the admin, so we can tag them and they can get their case resolved. There is a lot of work from us behind the scenes that you don't see but that you could easily help with. Example, reporting a player without enough evidence only makes us waist time that we could be dealing with other thing, like appeals, comps or who know even having time to play a bit or make an event.

 

Why other admins don't revers others appeals or deal with them. Because we don't know the other guys situation, report or anything.

Example. Dredge (using him as example as he is posting already here) bans someone for what ever reason, lets say RDM. When the guy comes and appeals he is gonna ask "who I RDM I don't recall RDMing anyone", my response? "No idea but Dredge said you did, mind explaining" then since no one has info of the ban we will need to wait for Dredge to come in, when the whole issue could have been resolved in a few hours. Before you suggest/ask, yes we have records of our bans, but then we will need to go and look again at a report that already has had action taken instead of dealing with something else. 

 

 

TL;DR: Don't be lazy. Reading the whole post will not hurt you.

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8 minutes ago, Jaeger said:

As Dredge said one of the main reasons the appeals take time to be looked at is the people that don't follow the format properly and specially that don't tag the banning admin. Everyone of use goes daily looking for the appeals to look for people who is appealing the ban that we have banned or people that is appealing and did't tag the admin, so we can tag them and they can get their case resolved. There is a lot of work from us behind the scenes that you don't see but that you could easily help with. Example, reporting a player without enough evidence only makes us waist time that we could be dealing with other thing, like appeals, comps or who know even having time to play a bit or make an event.

 

Why other admins don't revers others appeals or deal with them. Because we don't know the other guys situation, report or anything.

Example. Dredge (using him as example as he is posting already here) bans someone for what ever reason, lets say RDM. When the guy comes and appeals he is gonna ask "who I RDM I don't recall RDMing anyone", my response? "No idea but Dredge said you did, mind explaining" then since no one has info of the ban we will need to wait for Dredge to come in, when the whole issue could have been resolved in a few hours. Before you suggest/ask, yes we have records of our bans, but then we will need to go and look again at a report that already has had action taken instead of dealing with something else. 

 

 

TL;DR: Don't be lazy. Reading the whole post will not hurt you.

But when someone makes a report cant any admin see the report? I say that because when i try to see if anybody viewed my report there would be about 10 views and not 1 would reply -____-, Also when it comes to reporting, any admin could just take it and see the evidence right? Cant they just go back to the report in the first place?

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19 hours ago, Buddy Martinez said:

I agree, Its ridiculous how the admin team takes their sweet time to resolve issue's! Isn't it their job to fix issues at hand as quickly as possible? I understand there is hundreds of issues at hand but if that is the case why not just bring in more support staff?

 

Admins have lives too they cant just sit down and fix problems all day they have to work and make a living so when they come home they can sit down and fix some problems 

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3 minutes ago, Buddy Martinez said:

But when someone makes a report cant any admin see the report? I say that because when i try to see if anybody viewed my report there would be about 10 views and not 1 would reply -____-, Also when it comes to reporting, any admin could just take it and see the evidence right? Cant they just go back to the report in the first place?

Yes any admin can see the reports. And as I said it will just double the work instead of spreading the stuff. While I could be dealing with your appeal (looking for the player report, and watching the evidence) that has been sitting for 15 mins while the banning admin can reply to you in a timely manner other people will need to wait a few more hours for their comp that has been there for 2 days.

 

Also each time you open your thread that counts as 1, you open it 10 times to see if it has a reply, it has 10 vies then. The number doesn't precisely means that it has been looked. 

 

And to point something else out, yes we are volunteers we don't get paid or anything. We have RL stuff and things to deal with but even when my boss calls me in after work hours to fix something I tell him to wait until my time to work, not his slave dude. Consider that in here. We give a lot of our time to you, but we will not be available at your will 24/7. Most of use are on enough time for you to find us.

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3 minutes ago, Jaeger said:

Yes any admin can see the reports. And as I said it will just double the work instead of spreading the stuff. While I could be dealing with your appeal (looking for the player report, and watching the evidence) that has been sitting for 15 mins while the banning admin can reply to you in a timely manner other people will need to wait a few more hours for their comp that has been there for 2 days.

 

Also each time you open your thread that counts as 1, you open it 10 times to see if it has a reply, it has 10 vies then. The number doesn't precisely means that it has been looked. 

 

And to point something else out, yes we are volunteers we don't get paid or anything. We have RL stuff and things to deal with but even when my boss calls me in after work hours to fix something I tell him to wait until my time to work, not his slave dude. Consider that in here. We give a lot of our time to you, but we will not be available at your will 24/7. Most of use are on enough time for you to find us.

Like I said in my post..if you want to provide a decent better service to this community, its not that hard to start it with here. Yeah, sure it "doubles" the time if another admin handled the ban appeal (5 added minutes really isn't something to complain about but alright) but overall, it is a lot better for the community as they will get their appeal handled in a timely manner. Again, I understand RL/reasons here/etc, but when you've been in this line of work like I have myself (albeit a different site), you can see the flaws and see the simple fix for it.

Edited by Coyote
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18 minutes ago, KIiak said:

Admins have lives too they cant just sit down and fix problems all day they have to work and make a living so when they come home they can sit down and fix some problems 

I agree that admins have lives and can't sit down to take care of problems all day real life stuff takes precedence over anything. The issue is that there is no rule set in place to allow another admin to take over anothers responsibility when life happens. 

Maybe the admin staff can assign staff to only doing one thing like appeals, or comps rather then taking everything all at once? If they can find a better way to streamline the duties for quicker responses I think it would be better for the community as a whole. 

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Just now, Obi-Juan said:

Cant uou go and look at the ban report and see for yourself? sounds like pure laziness to me :kermit:

Sounds like a co-worker who cant over rule another coworker. Pretty common in many places. Cops cant over rule other cops of the same rank, admins cant over rule other admins.

Edited by HotWings
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Just now, CPT Morgan said:

I agree that admins have lives and can't sit down to take care of problems all day real life stuff takes precedence over anything. The issue is that there is no rule set in place to allow another admin to take over anothers responsibility when life happens. 

Maybe the admin staff can assign staff to only doing one thing like appeals, or comps rather then taking everything all at once? If they can find a better way to streamline the duties for quicker responses I think it would be better for the community as a whole. 

We are not especially assigned to any role but there is people that has choosen which role they will take. Some admins deal only with comps others with dupers others with Player Reports

 

Just now, Obi-Juan said:

Cant uou go and look at the ban report and see for yourself? sounds like pure laziness to me :kermit:

I could do it with out problem. But you only see 5 minutes bc you think your appeal is the only one. It will be a lot more of viewing a lot of 5 minutes. So I can see why you are banned or what you did wrong.

 

And just to be clear I'm not opposing to the idea, just pointing out our point of view of the things, so you can consider both sides and make a proper solid suggestion

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3 minutes ago, Jaeger said:

We are not especially assigned to any role but there is people that has choosen which role they will take. Some admins deal only with comps others with dupers others with Player Reports

 

I could do it with out problem. But you only see 5 minutes bc you think your appeal is the only one. It will be a lot more of viewing a lot of 5 minutes. So I can see why you are banned or what you did wrong.

 

And just to be clear I'm not opposing to the idea, just pointing out our point of view of the things, so you can consider both sides and make a proper solid suggestion

And I am making a solid, proper suggestion....seeing in how I have been on both sides of the fence as a player and as a game administrator. That proper, solid suggestion being to let any admin handle a ban appeal. Yeah, there will be added time to review the initial ban, but its part of being an online game administrator.

Edited by Coyote
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Just now, Coyote said:

And I am making a solid, proper suggestion....seeing in how I have been on both sides of the fence as a player and as a game administrator. That proper, solid suggestion being to let any admin handle a ban appeal. Yeah, there will be added time to review the initial ban, but its part of being an online game administrator.

Not my call is up to the Community Managers. Still I don't think that allowing other admins to review the appeals will fix the issue.

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make sure you use @ and admin name so they get the notification, I get alerts on my smartphone so if you tag me I will respond to you. I notice a lot of people don't tag the admins and that might be the reason they wait a long time.

I am certainly against "mandatory" anything! Once you put mandatory quotas and shit it becomes a job and nobody wants that. 

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