How far are police abilities allowed in certain situations?

[HotWings]

you are risking what? a 15k gun? a well geared rebel spends around 30k' date=' you bringing your hunter/strider thats YOUR problem , no one told you to bring a hunter/strider to a certain situation you are risking it. Now you talk about imbalanced, underpowered APD, disadvantage all the time, ingame, in forums, so why dont you just quit the APD? instead of ruining the game for other people(specially NEW people or NEW gangs), just because you dont like something doesnt mean you have to abuse your "powers" or abilities, you may be a LT but [b'] you are not above anyone, apd rebels and civs at the end are just players trying to have fun.

The same can be said for a rebel, why are they risking their gear to fight cops? Why are they risking their Ifrits/Orcas/Hemmts to do drugs? Cops ruin your fun by actually doing cop things? Why do you want to ruin their fun by saying they shouldnt? The entire argument you made is just.... not thought out at all.

[Romulus]

To help ease your mind on APD procedure on the matter at hand' date=' we allow our officers to find ways of getting a job done as long as they do not break any server rules or APD procedures. Getting into locked cars like this has come up multiple times and is not an exploit. In fact it is explicitly in the APD guidelines as being allowed to do if the vehicle is obstructing an area we need to get to. So if a vehicle is blocking the entrance to prison, bank, fed, we will move it. Now, regarding ramming vehicles is also a rule in the guidebook that has some interpretation. Ramming vehicles in order to blow up, kill, mane someone is against APD procedure and server rules. Our ramming procedure is primarily regarding vehicle pursuits. However, the APD is backed up by support to nudge vehicles, blocking access to area, out of the way with armored vehicles (hunters and strikers) or the use of smaller vehicles in a non violent manner. This does not allow APD to continuously ram a car until it blows up, but does allow pushing unoccupied vehicles out of the way. Accidents and arma physics happen and things blow up and civilians/rebels risk their property if they block an area and should not expect money from the police. If civilians/rebels decide they will use manned vehicle blockades, then we will have to talk to the admins regarding that to determine what actions the APD can take. However, I have not seen a group do that yet...[/quote']

I agreed with everything said up until the last couple sentences. If you can get in the vehicles and move them there really should be no reason to ram them in the first place, especially since you acknowledged the fact that arma happens and things go boom when people try to ram unarmored vehicles with armored ones. If the police blow up a vehicle by ramming it, knowing damn well they can move it, the person should be entitled to ask for comp on the matter, or accidents and arma could happen more regularly. That was the reason rolling barricades were taken out if i am not mistaken, to many accidents or desync it was becoming a mess.

[Hakeem]

The same can be said for a rebel' date=' why are they risking their gear to fight cops? Why are they risking their Ifrits/Orcas/Hemmts to do drugs? Cops ruin your fun by actually doing cop things? Why do you want to ruin their fun by saying they shouldnt? The entire argument you made is just.... not thought out at all. [/quote']

you are missing the point, the problem here is not risking things. its about cops abusing their abilities or "powers" to stop bank/fed/prisons or even normal criminal activities.

[HotWings]

I agreed with everything said up until the last couple sentences. If you can get in the vehicles and move them there really should be no reason to ram them in the first place' date=' especially since you acknowledged the fact that arma happens and things go boom when people try to ram unarmored vehicles with armored ones. If the police blow up a vehicle by ramming it, knowing damn well they can move it, the person should be entitled to ask for comp on the matter, or accidents and arma could happen more regularly. That was the reason rolling barricades were taken out if i am not mistaken, to many accidents or desync it was becoming a mess. [/quote']

If moving the car will lead to someones death why would they try to move it? That doesnt make much sense.

[kryptonthegamer]

To help ease your mind on APD procedure on the matter at hand' date=' we allow our officers to find ways of getting a job done as long as they do not break any server rules or APD procedures. Getting into locked cars like this has come up multiple times and is not an exploit. In fact it is explicitly in the APD guidelines as being allowed to do if the vehicle is obstructing an area we need to get to. So if a vehicle is blocking the entrance to prison, bank, fed, we will move it. Now, regarding ramming vehicles is also a rule in the guidebook that has some interpretation. Ramming vehicles in order to blow up, kill, mane someone is against APD procedure and server rules. Our ramming procedure is primarily regarding vehicle pursuits. However, the APD is backed up by support to nudge vehicles, blocking access to area, out of the way with armored vehicles (hunters and strikers) or the use of smaller vehicles in a non violent manner. This does not allow APD to continuously ram a car until it blows up, but does allow pushing unoccupied vehicles out of the way. Accidents and arma physics happen and things blow up and civilians/rebels risk their property if they block an area and should not expect money from the police. If civilians/rebels decide they will use manned vehicle blockades, then we will have to talk to the admins regarding that to determine what actions the APD can take. However, I have not seen a group do that yet...[/quote']

Yesterday a gang blocked prison bridge with orca! I woulve rammed that hard.

[kryptonthegamer]

you are missing the point' date=' the problem here is not risking things. its about cops abusing their abilities or "powers" to stop bank/fed/prisons or even normal criminal activities.[/quote']

You cant do a bank/fed without using blockades? Too bad.

[HotWings]

The same can be said for a rebel' date=' why are they risking their gear to fight cops? Why are they risking their Ifrits/Orcas/Hemmts to do drugs? Cops ruin your fun by actually doing cop things? Why do you want to ruin their fun by saying they shouldnt? The entire argument you made is just.... not thought out at all. [/quote']

you are missing the point, the problem here is not risking things. its about cops abusing their abilities or "powers" to stop bank/fed/prisons or even normal criminal activities.

FailFish

[Hypanius]

I agreed with everything said up until the last couple sentences. If you can get in the vehicles and move them there really should be no reason to ram them in the first place' date=' especially since you acknowledged the fact that arma happens and things go boom when people try to ram unarmored vehicles with armored ones. If the police blow up a vehicle by ramming it, knowing damn well they can move it, the person should be entitled to ask for comp on the matter, or accidents and arma could happen more regularly. That was the reason rolling barricades were taken out if i am not mistaken, to many accidents or desync it was becoming a mess. [/quote']

Agree, disagree, does not matter. The point of using an armored vehicle to shove another out of the way is in the cases when getting in the vacant vehicle will result in the death of the cop. Most times it will. If I had my way, Sgts+ could seize any vehicle, legal or not if used in the commission of a violent crime. No convincing to Paratus will let that happen because the salt would fly.

[Romulus]

If moving the car will lead to someones death why would they try to move it? That doesnt make much sense.

They zerg everything else why is this magically different. I am just simply stating that no one should be above server rules, VDM is defined as using ones vehicle to kill someone else is it not? If the police ram my vehicle and i get blown up that is vdm however you look at. If the police need to get past a vehicle they can find a way to do it without using tactics that they and they alone are allowed to use. That is what does not make sense.

[HotWings]

They zerg everything else why is this magically different. I am just simply stating that no one should be above server rules' date=' VDM is defined as using ones vehicle to kill someone else is it not? If the police ram my vehicle and i get blown up that is vdm however you look at. If the police need to get past a vehicle they can find a way to do it without using tactics that they and they alone are allowed to use. That is what does not make sense. [/quote']

If it was against the server rules it would not be allowed.... If you read what was written, Hypanius said flat out, he is unaware of the ruling if someone was IN the vehicle. The ramming of vehicles blocking the bridge/road/bank is only done when the vehicle is empty. If you choose to hide behind said vehicle that is your fault for doing so.

[Hypanius]

If it was against the server rules it would not be allowed.... If you read what was written' date=' Hypanius said flat out, he is unaware of the ruling if someone was IN the vehicle. The ramming of vehicles blocking the bridge/road/bank is only done when the vehicle is empty. If you choose to hide behind said vehicle that is your fault for doing so.[/quote']

Correct, if you read what I put, I never advocated for ramming a vehicle to kill, harm or mane someone.

[Romulus]

If it was against the server rules it would not be allowed.... If you read what was written' date=' Hypanius said flat out, he is unaware of the ruling if someone was IN the vehicle. The ramming of vehicles blocking the bridge/road/bank is only done when the vehicle is empty.[/quote']

I read everything he wrote, you must not have read what i said, i agreed with it all except for the fact that he tried to use the tired old excuse about arma mechanics. It really is simple, if you guys need a vehicle moved you should maybe try to move it, instead of taking the hell on wheels approach. All in all it is not a big issue with me, i understand the parking vehicles blocking entrances is a cheap tactic that i rarely use anyways.

VDM is using your vehicle as an OFFENSIVE weapon.

Dropping a sling loaded vehicle from a helicopter to intentionally kill a player or cause destruction by "bombing" them is also considered VDM, and is not allowed.

Armored Vehicles may be used in an offensive manner against ONLY other armored vehicles. (Strider/Hunter/Ifrit) due to the difficulty in stopping those types of vehicles

You may hit a player with your vehicle only if they are firing at you, and blocking your direct path of travel. You may not maneuver to intentionally hit a player.

That is a server rule, so if there is was something in there explaining the special circumstances it should be accessible by all to read. Now i understand that the spirit of this rule is more geared towards someone in pursuit of a vehicle, but it states right there you are not allowed to use your vehicle in an offensive manner.

[Romulus]

Correct' date=' if you read what I put, I never advocated for ramming a vehicle to kill, harm or mane someone.[/quote']

But you alluded to the fact that accidents happen and arma happens. IMO it should be more like the shooting tires out of a moving vehicle, while it is allowed if you kill driver in process with no rp, it is still considered rdm. If you want to try ramming vehicles out of way, you should be willing to accept your responsibility if things do not go according to plan.

[HotWings]

"Ram the fuck out of that car blocking the bridge" Gnashes 2k16 All possible situations are not posted and cannot be posted or addressed as sometimes they happen for the first time or are so rare that its not worth the effort. I do agree that a situation like that should be posted in the rules/guidelines and have actually requested it be added.

And Arma is Arma, I have seen cars blow up simply because they wanted to. Any time a vehicle is close to another there is a 10% chance everything blows up for no real reason at all tbh.

[Romulus]

Like I said I understand the need for it, it just really does suck to be on the losing side of a vehicle explosion, knowing full well if I did something like that I would get in trouble. I just think It definitely should be last tactic tried is all.

[Jessie Slaughter]

well then as cops why dont we just start taking our cars and choppers and blocking all the entrances? I mean at the fed we aren't supposed to spike strip every gate, so allow you time to get out or the chance to get out, what's the difference with the bank and reverse it for civs.

Why don't you apply for cop and play for a few weeks so you understand the balance and the procedures. Thats my best suggestion for people who think that cops are just too OP. We really aren't. Rebels/civs play with the same group every time, they have tactics and teamwork. Cops are constantly shifting and playing with new people it's hard to build that type of trust and teamwork in a couple short hours.

Cops are not as easy or OP that everyone thinks.

[Isper]

you are missing the point' date=' the problem here is not risking things. its about cops abusing their abilities or "powers" to stop bank/fed/prisons or even normal criminal activities.[/quote']

so 90% of the time there is usualy 1-2 lts on (maybe) 1-2 sgts and the rest cpls cosntables and cadets.... so lets say there is 10 cops and 1 lt, 2 sgts, 2 cpls, 3 constables and 2 cadets

so out of that, we have access to 1 7.62 rifle, then the possiable of and orca and some armor.... now if were all "fully" geared as cops... thats 1 7.62 4 mxm, 3 mx, and 2 mk20.... vs 10 7.62s along with gernades, the possiable of a .50 and ifrits, and the high ground and choke points.... how are we overpowered or abusing or abilities again?

[Hakeem]

so 90% of the time there is usualy 1-2 lts on (maybe) 1-2 sgts and the rest cpls cosntables and cadets.... so lets say there is 10 cops and 1 lt' date=' 2 sgts, 2 cpls, 3 constables and 2 cadets

so out of that, we have access to 1 7.62 rifle, then the possiable of and orca and some armor.... now if were all "fully" geared as cops... thats 1 7.62 4 mxm, 3 mx, and 2 mk20.... vs 10 7.62s along with gernades, the possiable of a .50 and ifrits, and the high ground and choke points.... how are we overpowered or abusing or abilities again?[/quote']

and I think this is another problem with some cops specially higher ups, you think we are FSA or Encore or idk, imo we are far away from that (I dont know if its a good idea to say this but) we normally, in our best situations, have 4 armed and thats it AND if you authorize lethals when 4 rebels (2mks, no guys in roof) are robbing the bank and you have like 7+ cops but you cant lead them and make them work as a team and you are a LT (not talking about you Isper) then I think we have a problem and thats the whole point of this thread cops abusing their abilities.

And the only one complaining about under/overpower is your LT, I am complaining about a LT who thinks hes above us and uses, arrogantly, the "LTs can authorize lethals at any time" as his shield to KILL us in any situation (bank/coke process/ or just driving trough a city)

and im gonna quote something an ADMIN said about people becoming toxic towards the APD, and I think its good for a situation like this

.. If nothing is done to you within the game to make it detrimental to kill players over and over then we end up with a poor user experience and players leave the server or become toxic towards the cops.

I have evidence of all that Im talking about in case any admin is interested.

[Consuela]

To help ease your mind on APD procedure on the matter at hand' date=' we allow our officers to find ways of getting a job done as long as they do not break any server rules or APD procedures. Getting into locked cars like this has come up multiple times and is not an exploit. In fact it is explicitly in the APD guidelines as being allowed to do if the vehicle is obstructing an area we need to get to. So if a vehicle is blocking the entrance to prison, bank, fed, we will move it. Now, regarding ramming vehicles is also a rule in the guidebook that has some interpretation. Ramming vehicles in order to blow up, kill, mane someone is against APD procedure and server rules. Our ramming procedure is primarily regarding vehicle pursuits. However, the APD is backed up by support to nudge vehicles, blocking access to area, out of the way with armored vehicles (hunters and strikers) or the use of smaller vehicles in a non violent manner. This does not allow APD to continuously ram a car until it blows up, but does allow pushing unoccupied vehicles out of the way. Accidents and arma physics happen and things blow up and civilians/rebels risk their property if they block an area and should not expect money from the police. If civilians/rebels decide they will use manned vehicle blockades, then we will have to talk to the admins regarding that to determine what actions the APD can take. However, I have not seen a group do that yet...[/quote']

Very interesting discussion. I hope this discussion from the community helps clear out some grey-areas on the rules, and hopefully open for new combat tactics or strategies based on this.

[Consuela]

Honestly' date=' when you park 5 SUVs around every entrance what do you expect me to tell my officers to do? Am I supposed to just allow you to rob the bank with no recourse because you have a chopper and parked 100 cars outside? Not going to happen... I RP'd when asked that my officers broke the window to gain access, but all that did was intensify the whining. If you are going to use a shady tactic the APD will respond with whatever means needed to circumvent that tactic. Honestly, we could have move them all since you had no one covering the first floor and they all had tires, instead the single officer who got in and downed and restrained your entire gang passed thru the windows after breaking them. Cpt Hypanius covered all the points I was trying to explain in game when you decided to yell instead of listen.[/quote']

Again, not the matter in discussion. If you want to go that way, I killed three of you guys, one through a wall, and the last one while I was flashbanged, but that is not at all the discussion in hand. If you want to whine about that particular matter, do it somewhere else where whining is in discussion. This post has grown to be very interesting from multiple members of the community, and even high-ranking APD members, and I kinda like where this is going. The point is to discuss the use of different tactics and abilities from the cops, and rebels, to address certain situations, but specially cop abilities over the civilian's capabilties of actions.

[Consuela]

They zerg everything else why is this magically different. I am just simply stating that no one should be above server rules' date=' VDM is defined as using ones vehicle to kill someone else is it not? If the police ram my vehicle and i get blown up that is vdm however you look at. If the police need to get past a vehicle they can find a way to do it without using tactics that they and they alone are allowed to use. That is what does not make sense. [/quote']

Nailed the tip of the iceberg my friend. Kudos.

[Bersabee]

I'd like to offer idea since y'all are whining about cops being able to jump into vehicles.

Cops are not allowed to jump into vehicles to move them but have access to tanks.

This solves your issue. Cops can't move them... But they can blow the fuck outta them.

Both parties will be happy.

[Bersabee]

Honestly, the cop perks put in place are to balance fights in between cops and civilians. Stop complaining about it. If you have problems with asylums gameplay and rules just move to another server

[Midamaru]

I think your questions have been awnsered right?

Cops are allowed to get into a vehicle and move it briefly out of the way. (Even in combat)

If you want to change that you should make a new thread with a poll about a suggestion.

[Consuela]

I'd like to offer idea since y'all are whining about cops being able to jump into vehicles.

Cops are not allowed to jump into vehicles to move them but have access to tanks.

This solves your issue. Cops can't move them... But they can blow the fuck outta them.

Both parties will be happy.

Discussing is not the same as whining, and I'd like this discussion to be about not whining. That being said, if we get access to RPGs or other placed explosives, tanks would be a fun addition, although it will make the whole cop vs. civs thing go bananas.

[Jessie Slaughter]

I killed three of you guys' date=' [b']one through a wall, and the last one while I was flashbanged, but that is not at all the discussion in hand..

And that my friend is exploiting....lol

I'm out.....if you don't like the way cops are allowed to do things don't play civ or change servers. Honestly this discussion is so drawn out and once again cop vs/ civ.

Might as well lock this shit before another 10 pages is here and dude still isn't satisfied.

[Jessie Slaughter]

Tanks and RPG's and shit... go play wasteland lol

[Consuela]

I think your questions have been awnsered right?

Cops are allowed to get into a vehicle and move it briefly out of the way. (Even in combat)

If you want to change that you should make a new thread with a poll about a suggestion.

Sort of, but new discussions have been brought abroad. Anyways, it was not a specific/closed question, more of an open discussion, but I think most readers will get to a consistent conclusion, which was the whole point of this.

[Midamaru]

And that my friend is exploiting....lol

I'm out.....if you don't like the way cops are allowed to do things don't play civ or change servers. Honestly this discussion is so drawn out and once again cop vs/ civ.

Might as well lock this shit before another 10 pages is here and dude still isn't satisfied.

Gotta love dense people like you' date=' maybe POSSIBLY he meant that he killed someone by shooting a bullet through a wall with the cop behind it?

Here have a video about ballistics in ARMA 3, hope you learn something new today!

[Consuela]

And that my friend is exploiting....lol

I'm out.....if you don't like the way cops are allowed to do things don't play civ or change servers. Honestly this discussion is so drawn out and once again cop vs/ civ.

Might as well lock this shit before another 10 pages is here and dude still isn't satisfied.

Shooting from the stairs on the bank of Altis onto a small piece of concrete that doesn't stop 7.62mm caliber shots, and being downed by the same officer that I killed whilst being flashbanged because I know where he was coming from and anticipated his movement? How can that be exploiting at all? I didn't say I was shooting through a wall on my side, but to an officer hiding behind one. Sorry for the grey-area open for interpretation, maybe on the wrong way.

[Consuela]

Honestly' date=' the cop perks put in place are to balance fights in between cops and civilians. Stop complaining about it. If you have problems with asylums gameplay and rules just move to another server[/quote']

Salty, aggresive, and people encouraging other members of the Asylum community to move to other servers just because you can't have a discussion without interpreting whatever someone has to say as whining, which may not be the case, is not what THIS COMMUNITY NEEDS. It neds people open for discussions, for great RP, new suggestions and considerations, and bringing encouragement to the community. Maybe I'm super new to the community and I'm not as familiriazed with everything as you are, but encouraging people to leave is not the way to go my friend. Maybe you should be the one that leaves to another server, to another community of ragers and shit talkers, and leave this open for civilized sapient-individuals with the ability to have a discussion in a peaceful, professional way. In the end, this post serves a greater purpose than my own knowledge, but for other people and the community in general as well.

[Consuela]

Tanks and RPG's and shit... go play wasteland lol

Agreed! Lol

[Poko]

Only seen a cop 'cheat' once and he got an exploit ban for it.

I have however' date=' seen rebels cry 'cheat' when they get beaten by cops because they cant stand the fact the faction they are meant to walk all over just won.[/quote']

I'm referring to the cops that can't be touched for the most part. I see a lot of cops break the rules that are either well known on cop with the higher ups or a higher up themselves, and when reported nothing happens. I'm sorry I should have clarified what I meant by cheat. I've seen many exploit though as well, I just don't feel the need to report people.

[Consuela]

I'm referring to the cops that can't be touched for the most part. I see a lot of cops break the rules that are either well known on cop with the higher ups or a higher up themselves' date=' and when reported nothing happens. I'm sorry I should have clarified what I meant by cheat. I've seen many exploit though as well, I just don't feel the need to report people.

[/quote']

Agreed. Most do it unconciously, or is a grey-area on the rules. Anyways, we appreciate the clarification.

[Guest]

Or, and I know I am being irrational in saying this, you could just shoot the cops before they even get to the bank.

[Jessie Slaughter]

Gotta love dense people like you' date=' maybe POSSIBLY he meant that he killed someone by shooting a bullet through a wall with the cop behind it?

Here have a video about ballistics in ARMA 3, hope you learn something new today!

[/quote']

I learned today that someone with your mentality thinks I'm dense, must mean I'm a genius.

[Consuela]

Or' date=' and I know I am being irrational in saying this, you could just shoot the cops before they even get to the bank.[/quote']

Setup two Mk200s and make them go through that bottleneck is fucking epic

[Midamaru]

I learned today that someone with your mentality thinks I'm dense' date=' must mean I'm a genius. [/quote']

Ohhh you've done it now, 1v1 me on twitter! >

[kryptonthegamer]

Setup two Mk200s and make them go through that bottleneck is fucking epic

What does this mean???

[Guest]

Setup two Mk200s and make them go through that bottleneck is fucking epic

Meh MK200S aren't really nescecary. Just some well played 7.62 ammo.