Jailing Suggestion

[HotWings]

1 minute ago, Budbringer said:

Why would I turn myself in? Most of the times I get robocopped, or explain myself for a hour and still get full ticket. Sure you can say my rp sucks, but the thing is, no matter how hard I try, people will never give me reduced tickets because gang tag. Sure money is not a n issue for me, but for the regular players it is. I can rob a gas station with a pistol and some random name and I hear sirens and 2 second later I'm downed and getting full ticket for not giving myself up. I was at cocaine fields once, a n undercover SGT showed up, downed me wihtout saying anything, full ticket etc without ever showing he is a cop. The issue with your suggestion is what I just said, that cops are not likely to give you a cut on your tickets which will in return hurt the little guy trying to make some cash from cocaine. You are only thinking about the gang members doing bank and their nonscope 1337 whatever legend they call themself, not everyone. If you want your suggestion to be a valid suggestion, you first need to change your police force into actually rping. As of right now, there are zero incentives for me to give myself up than trying to shoot my way out

 

I mean, if you are turning yourself in and not automatically getting atleast 50% off you need to file a IAD. (not running or shooting is automatically 50% off). We all understand and acknowledge there are bad cops, unless the reports are filed nothing is ever going to be done.  Robocopping with no reason can easily get someone hit with Misc for failing to RP, while not a quick fix will eventually lead to harsher punishments.  I will cut most tickets as long as time is taken to talk about it and not just "self defense....OMG you're robbocopping me for not believing self defense??"  I dont even care about original stories anymore, just effort. Some are much better than others, but everyone should get some sort of discount for trying.  

[Cre]

6 minutes ago, HotWings said:

We all understand and acknowledge there are bad cops, unless the reports are filed nothing is ever going to be done.

In honesty, the reports will do nothing either. When you punish/kick one bad cop off the force, two more take their place. It's simply too easy to get into the APD, and apparently too easy to climb the ranks. People behave during their time as a Cadet, but the moment they hit Constable they forget everything they were suppose to learn. And somehow the further some people climb in the ranks, the more they forget about correct procedure.

And before I get quoted and told that my comment is not constructive, and that I should add some sort of solution to the problem: Unfortunately, I don't have one.

Edited January 25, 2016 by Creic

[Kajun]

[Deathslug]

Asylum is based around crime and money, for the most part.

Nobody that plays Asylum plays for purely legal reasons.

If this was implemented, would it not reduce crime?

Which essentially would reduce cops activity, due to players being afraid to get high bounties? 

I know I would be less interested in doing the things I currently enjoy, which is illegal things. 

(If I wasn't able to look forward to getting a large bounty)

 

If asylum wasn't cruel, if it was more heavenly like, it'd be boring and pointless to play. 

 

 

Edited January 25, 2016 by Deathslug

[Axe]

19 minutes ago, Budbringer said:

Why would I turn myself in? Most of the times I get robocopped, or explain myself for a hour and still get full ticket. Sure you can say my rp sucks, but the thing is, no matter how hard I try, people will never give me reduced tickets because gang tag. Sure money is not a n issue for me, but for the regular players it is. I can rob a gas station with a pistol and some random name and I hear sirens and 2 second later I'm downed and getting full ticket for not giving myself up. I was at cocaine fields once, a n undercover SGT showed up, downed me wihtout saying anything, full ticket etc without ever showing he is a cop. The issue with your suggestion is what I just said, that cops are not likely to give you a cut on your tickets which will in return hurt the little guy trying to make some cash from cocaine. You are only thinking about the gang members doing bank and their nonscope 1337 whatever legend they call themself, not everyone. If you want your suggestion to be a valid suggestion, you first need to change your police force into actually rping. As of right now, there are zero incentives for me to give myself up than trying to shoot my way out

Implying he CAN shoot himself out.... <3

 

[DeVo]

9 hours ago, HotWings said:

How does it make cops OP? Cops are not OP at all, we lose 80% of engagements.  

 

I dont think 50% should be taken, maybe a 5-10% fee would be more reasonable. 

i agree with Hotwings, This suggestion doesn't make it OP for police, But the 50% might as well be a a bankruptcy for civs. Reduce the Ticket penalty down to 1-5% and then it would be reasonable. I'm only going to agree with this idea because as of now the max prison time is 45minutes (correct me if im wrong) and if a rebel gets a 1million dollar bounty and refuses to pay it he only gets such a low amount of prison time. (I understand rebels don't want to sit in jail all their lifetime but the saying goes "do the crime, do the time." +1 

Not all cops robocop their prisoners, they allow them to roleplay/give story before issuing those tickets/jail times. But i can't speak for the ones who don't care about the civs and the Roleplay when being a cop. I stand to roleplay with everyone i come in contact with when i'm a cop and i won't issue their ticket until our Rp is done.

As much as i have been reading up on everyones post about this thread suggestion i've come to realization that cops don't care about the roleplay (atleast some of them don't) and for that to allow the cops to steal money for refusing a ticket is wrong. I'd have to scratch my current +1 and have it become a -1. 

Edited January 26, 2016 by DeVo
thought about it.

[SheriffJohnBeard]

45 minutes ago, Hypanius said:

They should pay the ticket in order to avoid that jail time then.  Guy spends 45 min in jail for 50K, guy pays ticket avoiding going to jail and runs hemmit full of wreck excavation for an hour and makes 100K.  My suggestion is to stem people from committing these violent crimes especially against the cops and to instead if they are quite wanted actually consider turning themselves in as an actual alternative to being caught.

thank you hypanius for everything you've done, but i would 100% disagree with this.

1. Don't police officers already make the same amount if they pay their ticket or go to jail? What difference would it mean to them?

2. You seem to be a "tad bit" out of touch with reality thinking you can make 100k in one hour by excavating and using hemmt. Maybe the rare occasion when the servers have about 15-25 people and no one has tried killing or robbing you, maybe you could make some money, but not 100k.  Any more people online and it is highly unlikely. A full hemmt box of meth to gather and process takes about an hour and fifteen minutes if nothing goes wrong, and that makes you ~130k. I dont see excavating being comparable.

3. It seems this suggestion is directed at a select handful of people.

4. With Asylum having a money cap, this suggestion is awful. If Asylum didn't have a money cap, this suggestion would make a bit more sense. But I still think this would affect the general population more than those select handful of people. 

[Hypanius]

8 minutes ago, Deathslug said:

Asylum is based around crime and money, for the most part.

Nobody that plays Asylum plays for purely legal reasons.

If this was implemented, would it not reduce crime?

Which essentially would reduce cops activity, due to players being afraid to get high bounties? 

I know I would be less interested in doing the things I currently enjoy, which is illegal things. 

(If I wasn't able to look forward to getting a large bounty)

 

If asylum wasn't cruel, if it was more heavenly like, it'd be boring and pointless to play. 

 

 

There use to be a time that cops were feared.  Now if anything cops are an inconvenience to these large gangs.  There was a magical time where jail, meant jail which struck fear in the gangs.  Gangs would not stick around an area for too long due to the emerging horde that was after them even if it was only 3-4 cops coming back.  Right now as it stands, rp is getting less and less due to the increasing money orientated framework which kinda came when cops had to start paying more and more for things.  Cop gets into an engagement with gang x and loses 5 loadouts.  Depending on what rank and what slot you are in,  it can vary from 25K-70K.  Rebels say then just leave us to our business.  That did not solve anything cause now the rebels have just been free reign to make 100K-200K worth of meth.  Rebel group is doing a bank, once again something that is so easy to do with such a great reward, cops lose 2-3 loadouts due to having to go there.  Rebels did not use to just fight cops to fight cops.  They stayed away from that.I really do not see what rebels and civs have to complain about when it is so easy to make money.

[Deathslug]

I understand. Possibly take it from a gang account if it's a gang doing the drugs rather than individuals? 

 

[Hypanius]

7 minutes ago, SheriffJohnBeard said:

2. You seem to be a "tad bit" out of touch with reality thinking you can make 100k in one hour by excavating and using hemmt. Maybe the rare occasion when the servers have about 15-25 people and no one has tried killing or robbing you, maybe you could make some money, but not 100k.  Any more people online and it is highly unlikely. A full hemmt box of meth to gather and process takes about an hour and fifteen minutes if nothing goes wrong, and that makes you ~130k. I dont see excavating being comparable.

IDK what you are talking about because I have run hemmits filled with this stuff and even zamaks work and not get robbed a single time with a full server and with the helicopter ESP back when it was a thing.

[FozzyBear]

41 minutes ago, Budbringer said:

people will never give me reduced tickets because gang tag.

Yeah and that's the point where either your gang has showed A. a bad reputation B.  you simply rek them to much! ( stop rekking them bud! you killer )

[Valerios]

Time is money friend, don't forget that. Spenting 45 minutes in jail most of the times cost you a lot of money.

[Hypanius]

45 minutes ago, Budbringer said:

 Sure you can say my rp sucks, but the thing is, no matter how hard I try, people will never give me reduced tickets because gang tag. 

Regarding this Anders, I can counter this with a situation yesterday.  Roguepilot (part of insanity and has tags) turned himself in.  Reduced ticket?  No, full pardon.  There are still some good cops out there.

[Budbringer]

3 minutes ago, Hypanius said:

There use to be a time that cops were feared.  Now if anything cops are an inconvenience to these large gangs.  There was a magical time where jail, meant jail which struck fear in the gangs.  Gangs would not stick around an area for too long due to the emerging horde that was after them even if it was only 3-4 cops coming back.  Right now as it stands, rp is getting less and less due to the increasing money orientated framework which kinda came when cops had to start paying more and more for things.  Cop gets into an engagement with gang x and loses 5 loadouts.  Depending on what rank and what slot you are in,  it can vary from 25K-70K.  Rebels say then just leave us to our business.  That did not solve anything cause now the rebels have just been free reign to make 100K-200K worth of meth.  Rebel group is doing a bank, once again something that is so easy to do with such a great reward, cops lose 2-3 loadouts due to having to go there.  Rebels did not use to just fight cops to fight cops.  They stayed away from that.I really do not see what rebels and civs have to complain about when it is so easy to make money.

Altough doing the bank is easy, the biggest reason cops loses these fights is due to lack of higher ups who knows something else than RP. For instance, I can do a bank, and see the cops charge in with 3 people in a sport hatch with sgts, lts and cpts on. There are no cordination. I see cops charge the prison with quadbikes. Yes the cops are sometimes outnumbered, but the reason the cops are not feared is because, well they dont even try. I cant remember the last time I saw a tactical orca drop. Cadets usually snipe with their holo scope. Promote some people who knows how to lead the battlefield, maybe they will be feared again

[Rodrigo]

The problem with this is : It doesnt give any sense at all. If people dont pay their ticket they will lose money, i dont see where this is coming from. What will it do for the civ/cop? Just add it for fun? Im trying so hard to see where you want to go with this and why, but i cant see any point in it.

[SheriffJohnBeard]

57 minutes ago, HotWings said:

Cops lose a 7-12k loadout just for walking down the street.  The argument that rebels lose money for being arrested is pretty worn at this point.  Cops lose just as much money with no way to make their own weapons and cut their load out cost to basically nothing.  They lose that gear at a rate much higher than rebels as well.  Hence why you see cops returning with shit weapons after losing 5-6 loadouts in the last hour.

Cops don't need to lose that much per load out. You spawn in with a MK20 (better than needing to make a weapong), plus the MK20 is a decent weapon, good enough for most casual encounters. A Two-Life rule "should" have police officers value their lives more, instead of rushing and trying to win by numbers. A thought out plan to attack the bank/fed/prison with people hard-aiming whilst others moved closer would be wiser. Officers wouldn't lose 5-6 loadouts.

Cops can also make money just by hanging out in the cities and Role-Playing with civilians. If a person is charged and arrested in Athira and I am in Kavala, I still get paid. If a person is lethaled at the Bank and I am patrolling medium-yield quarry, I still get paid. If I am conducting a checkpoint with fellow officers, I get a "bonus" paycheck every 5 mins. 

I enjoy being a police officer as much as I enjoy being a civilian/rebel. I'd say, it is a lot funner making money by role-playing than by farming ingredients.

[Budbringer]

Just now, Hypanius said:

Regarding this Anders, I can counter this with a situation yesterday.  Roguepilot (part of insanity and has tags) turned himself in.  Reduced ticket?  No, full pardon.  There are still some good cops out there.

Yes, but most people I know, when they turn themself in, they usually check the cop playlist to see what cops are online, so they know if they will be able to get parole etc

[Rodrigo]

Just now, Budbringer said:

Altough doing the bank is easy, the biggest reason cops loses these fights is due to lack of higher ups who knows something else than RP. For instance, I can do a bank, and see the cops charge in with 3 people in a sport hatch with sgts, lts and cpts on. There are no cordination. I see cops charge the prison with quadbikes. Yes the cops are sometimes outnumbered, but the reason the cops are not feared is because, well they dont even try. I cant remember the last time I saw a tactical orca drop. Cadets usually snipe with their holo scope. Promote some people who knows how to lead the battlefield, maybe they will be feared again

Exactly!

[Deathslug]

we need a place like a turf where tactical strategy will be implemented often as banks / prisons / fed.. 

[SheriffJohnBeard]

5 minutes ago, Hypanius said:

IDK what you are talking about because I have run hemmits filled with this stuff and even zamaks work and not get robbed a single time with a full server and with the helicopter ESP back when it was a thing.

im going based on that i never made that much money excavating. it could be just my bad luck ( or gang tag ) that i get robbed or threaten a lot more often than you would. not being robbed a single time is luxury  

[Hypanius]

1 minute ago, Budbringer said:

Altough doing the bank is easy, the biggest reason cops loses these fights is due to lack of higher ups who knows something else than RP. For instance, I can do a bank, and see the cops charge in with 3 people in a sport hatch with sgts, lts and cpts on. There are no cordination. I see cops charge the prison with quadbikes. Yes the cops are sometimes outnumbered, but the reason the cops are not feared is because, well they dont even try. I cant remember the last time I saw a tactical orca drop. Cadets usually snipe with their holo scope. Promote some people who knows how to lead the battlefield, maybe they will be feared again

Once again I can counter with one I was in 2 days ago.  I brought out the justice hawk to try a tactical drop on an atm with a bunch of people in it, was one tapped out of it with 4 rebels all shooting at me.  Brought out a strider to do a strider push, once again one tapped out.  These guys only had 6 people doing the bank and all 6 got away with 15 cops on.

[SheriffJohnBeard]

12 minutes ago, Hypanius said:

There use to be a time that cops were feared.  Now if anything cops are an inconvenience to these large gangs.  There was a magical time where jail, meant jail which struck fear in the gangs.  Gangs would not stick around an area for too long due to the emerging horde that was after them even if it was only 3-4 cops coming back.  Right now as it stands, rp is getting less and less due to the increasing money orientated framework which kinda came when cops had to start paying more and more for things.  Cop gets into an engagement with gang x and loses 5 loadouts.  Depending on what rank and what slot you are in,  it can vary from 25K-70K.  Rebels say then just leave us to our business.  That did not solve anything cause now the rebels have just been free reign to make 100K-200K worth of meth.  Rebel group is doing a bank, once again something that is so easy to do with such a great reward, cops lose 2-3 loadouts due to having to go there.  Rebels did not use to just fight cops to fight cops.  They stayed away from that.I really do not see what rebels and civs have to complain about when it is so easy to make money.

i think it depends on the officers. as a cadet, a few of my constable see a CERTAIN GANG TAG and would rather avoid them and go the other way. other times, the constables i am will not shy away from a fight.

& as far as i can remember. rebels DID used to fight cops just to fight cops. a time when the justice wagon was around as well and a certain police officer would camp donor town during gang wars.

[Budbringer]

Just now, Hypanius said:

Once again I can counter with one I was in 2 days ago.  I brought out the justice hawk to try a tactical drop on an atm with a bunch of people in it, was one tapped out of it with 4 rebels all shooting at me.  Brought out a strider to do a strider push, once again one tapped out.  These guys only had 6 people doing the bank and all 6 got away with 15 cops on.

Then the issue is that what you did was wrong. Why would you land a ghosthawk on top of the bank with a bunch of dudes there? Why didnt you have a strider take over light tower first, so they can supress roof with 2 dudes, and have 6 people charge the bank from backdoor and the rest dropped off from the ghosthawk behind all the vents, so the people on the roof cant shoot them? You see, I can counter you also, your tactic wasnt very thought out. Maybe get a better pilot to fly the GH

[Rodrigo]

1 minute ago, Hypanius said:

Once again I can counter with one I was in 2 days ago.  I brought out the justice hawk to try a tactical drop on an atm with a bunch of people in it, was one tapped out of it with 4 rebels all shooting at me.  Brought out a strider to do a strider push, once again one tapped out.  These guys only had 6 people doing the bank and all 6 got away with 15 cops on.

Atleast you tried, but ofc it wont work with 4 people on top of the roof. The cops should have tried to lethal one or two of the guys on the roof. And then landed the heli on top of the bank same as the strider rushed in to the building. It all comes down to the right timing, good pilot, good shooters helping out at the bank.

[RVaders]

1 hour ago, Atmosphere said:

Which cops are shit enough to return 5-6+ times in 1 hour? Shit like that shouldn't even be allowed.

Stratis, because there isnt anything else to do

[Hypanius]

2 minutes ago, Budbringer said:

Then the issue is that what you did was wrong. Why would you land a ghosthawk on top of the bank with a bunch of dudes there? Why didnt you have a strider take over light tower first, so they can supress roof with 2 dudes, and have 6 people charge the bank from backdoor and the rest dropped off from the ghosthawk behind all the vents, so the people on the roof cant shoot them? You see, I can counter you also, your tactic wasnt very thought out. Maybe get a better pilot to fly the GH

I could still counter with several different strategies each resulting in a high loss for the higher up.  Strider push to lighthouse with 3 guys getting out and getting mowed down and dieing before they get there while at the same time an orca is pushed and pilot gets shot out.  All the same different situation different people.

[RVaders]

4 minutes ago, Rodrigo said:

Atleast you tried, but ofc it wont work with 4 people on top of the roof. The cops should have tried to lethal one or two of the guys on the roof. And then landed the heli on top of the bank same as the strider rushed in to the building. It all comes down to the right timing, good pilot, good shooters helping out at the bank.

Thats the problem, just about half if not more of all cops are half retarted, have no patience and lack skill in shooting

[Hypanius]

Just now, RamonVaders said:

Thats the problem, just about half if not more of all cops are half retarted, have no patience and lack skill in shooting

Its not the cops are half retarded its that they may not be as skilled which is where strategies come in.  However 1 good rebels can still kill 3-5 cops at a time without even getting hit because for the cops to be effective they have to get close.

[Budbringer]

Just now, Hypanius said:

I could still counter with several different strategies each resulting in a high loss for the higher up.  Strider push to lighthouse with 3 guys getting out and getting mowed down and dieing before they get there while at the same time an orca is pushed and pilot gets shot out.  All the same different situation different people.

You are basically arguing that cops are not able to win at all! Maybe promote people who know how to battlefield, or recruit some people who know how to battlefield to train the sgts and lt and cpts to understand a battlefield, so the cops stand a fighting chance. Last time I played cop, we were 7 and stopped a 10 man bank. Its not impossible, you just gotta change your strategies to what is meeting you

[Rodrigo]

Just now, Hypanius said:

I could still counter with several different strategies each resulting in a high loss for the higher up.  Strider push to lighthouse with 3 guys getting out and getting mowed down and dieing before they get there while at the same time an orca is pushed and pilot gets shot out.  All the same different situation different people.

It all comes down to the tactics and who you online on cop with you. People that have played on asylum for a long time as rebel, they know how to stop the bank. If you see someone you think might have a good idea or tactic for the bank even if its only a constable try and give him the chance to lead, might work out. 

[HotWings]

Just now, RamonVaders said:

Thats the problem, just about half if not more of all cops are half retarted, have no patience and lack skill in shooting

Or the rebels are on top of large building with better vantage points and cover... Couldn't possibly be the case.  

 

Not sure how this topic turned into the bank, but its 100% rebel sided.  You would be hard pressed to find a rebel that will state differently as well.  Basically takes a zerg rush and luck to even get to the building.

[DJB]

In my opinion as a veteran player of the Asylum community that only plays the rebel side.. This idea is bad.  Very unfair if you ask me and the system is just fine as is in my opinion. No offense to you Mr. Hypanius, please I support anyone throwing ideas out there.  P.s  I'd like to see you serve 45 minutes in jail Hypanius and then say oh this isn't enough punishment LOL <3  We all know you never have to go to jail personally...Captain

[Hypanius]

Just now, Budbringer said:

You are basically arguing that cops are not able to win at all! Maybe promote people who know how to battlefield, or recruit some people who know how to battlefield to train the sgts and lt and cpts to understand a battlefield, so the cops stand a fighting chance. Last time I played cop, we were 7 and stopped a 10 man bank. Its not impossible, you just gotta change your strategies to what is meeting you

Think we tried that once on the training server where we gave the rebels who were now cops attacking it with w/e they needed, hunters, striders orcas, you name it.  They still lost and it was an even fight.

[Reavantos]

2 minutes ago, Budbringer said:

You are basically arguing that cops are not able to win at all! Maybe promote people who know how to battlefield, or recruit some people who know how to battlefield to train the sgts and lt and cpts to understand a battlefield, so the cops stand a fighting chance. Last time I played cop, we were 7 and stopped a 10 man bank. Its not impossible, you just gotta change your strategies to what is meeting you

 

THIS.. but hey. the ones good at tactics and shooting would rather play and help their precinct, instead of kissing ass in support channels or streaming. SO no promotions for them..

 

i have seen some SGTs with amazing skills be a sgt longer than i have been in the APD. Have great tactics amazing RP and are good officers.  #corruption

Edited January 25, 2016 by Reavantos

[Cre]

3 minutes ago, Budbringer said:

Maybe promote people who know how to battlefield, or recruit some people who know how to battlefield to train the sgts and lt and cpts to understand a battlefield

Will never happen while the whole "You don't get promoted unless you know someone high up", or as Reavantos said, "kissing ass in support channels" thing exists.

Edit:

And to add onto that, most people who make it to Sgt + instantly become lazy and hide in support channels.

Edited January 25, 2016 by Creic

[Budbringer]

Just now, Creic said:

Will never happen while the whole "You don't get promoted unless you know someone high up",

Welcome to real life. If you dont put your name on the map, how do you expect people to even hear about you

 

4 minutes ago, Hypanius said:

Think we tried that once on the training server where we gave the rebels who were now cops attacking it with w/e they needed, hunters, striders orcas, you name it.  They still lost and it was an even fight.

It honestly sounds like you have given up and have just rolled over to die. You dont even seem interested in trying any of what I have suggested

[Cre]

Just now, Budbringer said:

Welcome to real life. If you dont put your name on the map, how do you expect people to even hear about you

Nothing like real life. People who are useful go unnoticed, and people who are good at flattering higher ups but know fuck all about police procedure somehow end up leading. Thus resulting in the whole "We can't win banks", and your argument of "Promote people who know how to lead."

[Hypanius]

Just now, Budbringer said:

It honestly sounds like you have given up and have just rolled over to die. You dont even seem interested in trying any of what I have suggested

You know a thing or 2 about rolling over and dying I suppose.  I will take your word for it.

Back to my original suggestion,  This is to target those who commit these huge ass crimes with little punishment except waiting in jail for 10 min and getting out even though they could easily pay it off.  But hey what do I know.

[Budbringer]

4 minutes ago, Creic said:

Nothing like real life. People who are useful go unnoticed, and people who are good at flattering higher ups but know fuck all about police procedure somehow end up leading. Thus resulting in the whole "We can't win banks", and your argument of "Promote people who know how to lead."

How do you suggest you will be promoted when no one know who you are?

[Budbringer]

2 minutes ago, Hypanius said:

You know a thing or 2 about rolling over and dying I suppose.  I will take your word for it.

Back to my original suggestion,  This is to target those who commit these huge ass crimes with little punishment except waiting in jail for 10 min and getting out even though they could easily pay it off.  But hey what do I know.

"Easely pay it off" The reason they can pay it off in the first place is that they not waste money on their tickets