How far are police abilities allowed in certain situations?

[Consuela]

I'd like this post to serve for two purposes:

1. What, and when can cops use their abilities to get in locked vehicles without lockpicking them, spawning in HQ's, etc. ?

2. Assume we are robbing the bank of altis and we get a hatchback in the front door, locking the door, and two vehicles blocking the backside entrance of the building. The only way to get through both entrances is to get in the passenger seat (for the backside), and the driver seat for the front entrance, in order to access the building and stop the robbery. Can cops just exploit their power to get in a LOCKED vehicle without opening it in order to move, or are they required to lockpick it?

From my perspective, it is kinda overpowered if they can just get in the vehicle and move it without lockpicking it. I mean, if they CAN lockpick the vehicle, and they HAVE access to lockpicks, they should go through the process of lockpicking, like in real life. We want a real tactical experience, and getting in a locked vehicle without opening it is not close to it.

[Reformed epTic]

Quit abusing mechanics to give yourself an even better chance to rob the bank.

Banks are 80/20 rebels without abusing locked cars to block the doors, 100/0 while abusing cars.

If you have to resort to using such a scummy tactic, I'm going to go ahead and encourage you to hop on wasteland to improve your aim...if you can't pick off the cops as they cross from fucking Africa with virtually no cover, you don't deserve to rob the bank.

[Big Fred]

When I've seen cops breaking into cars in real life they usually smash a window. Never seen them using lockpicks.

[TheCrestedPenguin]

Yes cause us getting in a car to move it is somuch worse then you blocking off the fucking entrance to a bank with a stupid car. If you can't do banks without bitching about us getting in your damn car then don't do it at all.

[Reckout]

Yes cause us getting in a car to move it is somuch worse then you blocking off the fucking entrance to a bank with a stupid car. If you can't do banks without bitching about us getting in your damn car then don't do it at all.

Rekt

[Sean // Fitty Bread]

Yes cause us getting in a car to move it is somuch worse then you blocking off the fucking entrance to a bank with a stupid car. If you can't do banks without bitching about us getting in your damn car then don't do it at all.

he cant train them to be good so he trains them to be bitches

[Consuela]

When I've seen cops breaking into cars in real life they usually smash a window. Never seen them using lockpicks.

Let's just use this as a Altis-bound scenario in any case.

[Consuela]

I appreciate your comments, but its not the purpose of this post to throw shit at people for whatever reason you might have. I am not saying that I blocked the entrances, but maybe someone that I know did out of curiosity, and the scenario that I described took place. This post is meant to discuss APD "advantages" over civilians, where and when they can use them, and when it is considered "exploiting" of their abilities in order to achieve something easier/faster/effortlessly, not throw shit at each other attempting to be the "alpha-male" comment, doesn't help the community at all. Thanks all, and post your scenarios or comments about the PURPOSE of this post.

[Google™]

Everyone is like cursing him out lol

[Consuela]

Everyone is like cursing him out lol

I wanna be nice man, but people are so rude. They can't even read from an objective point of view, scoping out the details. They just get to fast-conclusions and try to be the alpha-male by shit talking me out. Not cool.

[Google™]

I wanna be nice man' date=' but people are so rude. They can't even read from an objective point of view, scoping out the details. They just get to fast-conclusions and try to be the alpha-male by shit talking me out. Not cool.[/quote']

Aye it's the internet; what did you expect?

[Midamaru]

The APD has the ability to enter any vehicle without keys.

This is not considered exploiting since they are allowed to briefly move a vehicle out of the way if it's blocking something completely.

For example if you block both sides of a bank there is no way getting in, this means that rebels will always get away with it.

The bank is however not how this started, it's merely a tool to stop griefing mostly.

I could just park a vehicle at the entrance of an HQ and not allow the APD to move it.

TL;DR In my eye's its completely fair APD can use this mechanic, also the bank is made retard proof for rebels.. use some other tactics.

[Miss Evo]

cops have access to lockpicks, they're used by sgt+ for bugged restraints i believe

[Consuela]

They do, for many cases, but mainly bugged restraints, etc. The thing is, I agree with Midamaru in small situations, or trolls, like blocking a HQ with a HEMTT, or emergency situations on the road, processing people, etc. But, if the car servers a strategical purpose in a firefight, and it is locked, should cops be allowed to move them freely? More specifically, if the car is no further than 40meters from me and I'm using it to block an entrance that flanks me, on any situation, can they just move it, or should they be required to lockpick in order to simulate real-life procedures a little bit? What do you think?

[Hiraku]

If a vehicle is in the way of police operations, the police are completely in their right to move it out of harms way, they cannot impond it, or move it further than necessary.

No joke, saw Durga move an entire orca from blocking the ladder of the bank roof when he was Cpt.

Also, cops cant lockpick cars, its impossible, the ability to is linked to a civ talent, they dont have it, they can only lockpick restraints, (And only Sgts can buy them, as it resets your Civ bounty through bugs)

[Reformed epTic]

If a vehicle is in the way of police operations' date=' the police are completely in their right to move it out of harms way, they cannot impond it, or move it further than necessary.

No joke, saw Durga move an entire orca from blocking the ladder of the bank roof when he was Cpt.

Also, cops cant lockpick cars, its impossible, the ability to is linked to a civ talent, they dont have it, they can only lockpick restraints, (And only Sgts can buy them, as it resets your Civ bounty through bugs)[/quote']

Some random civ gang left their Orca unlocked at a prison once, they were all dead and I really had to fucking pee so I left without impounding it.

Came back, some medic hopped in and took off LOL

[Midamaru]

They do' date=' for many cases, but mainly bugged restraints, etc. The thing is, I agree with Midamaru in small situations, or trolls, like blocking a HQ with a HEMTT, or emergency situations on the road, processing people, etc. But, if the car servers a strategical purpose in a firefight, and it is locked, should cops be allowed to move them freely? More specifically, if the car is no further than 40meters from me and I'm using it to block an entrance that flanks me, on any situation, can they just move it, or should they be required to lockpick in order to simulate real-life procedures a little bit? What do you think?[/quote']

I've played asylum for 2.2k hours and i can tell you if they have to lock pick it their chance of winning banks/prison breaks will become 0.

It's already hard enough for the APD to win strategically setup fights like that, for example you could use offroads to block the entrance of a deerstand.

Which means you cannot pushup, enter or do anything about deerstand shooters at the prison break... which kind of makes it broken.

In a more realistic situation (comparable to real life) people wouldn't even push up that close unless they're really specialized into doing such a thing.

And i can tell you that the APD that responds to prisonbreaks/federal banks or reserves are not trained like that, they are simply a random group of people with all kinds of variated skill and teamwork, something without even someone taking leadership over the situation.. it's just not do-able if they were to lockpick those cars to open up entree's in a tactical situation.

Maybe itself is a exploit worthy advantage that the APD have but it's necessary for balance.

[Jaylen Sarrett]

Quit abusing mechanics to give yourself an even better chance to rob the bank.

Banks are 80/20 rebels without abusing locked cars to block the doors' date=' 100/0 while abusing cars.

If you have to resort to using such a scummy tactic, I'm going to go ahead and encourage you to hop on wasteland to improve your aim...if you can't pick off the cops as they cross from fucking Africa with virtually no cover, you don't deserve to rob the bank.[/quote']

rekt

[CaliDazze]

Dont worry man. The cops will try to rek you here because we rek them on the Island.

Really, its a little scummy for us to block the doors/paths with vehicles AND its a little scummy for them to smash into our vehicles with armored vehicles secretly hoping they will blow up.

In the end, its usually all GG.

[Sky]

As Hiraku said, APD officers are permitted to move vehicles to the side if it is obstructing some sort of pathway. I understand why you are questioning this, but try to understand that you have all the time you need to set up and you have a short amount of time to successfully rob the bank. The APD has to push you in order to ease the tension, and if we had to lockpick your vehicles, the bank would be EVEN MORE overwhelmingly rebel sided, considering you have higher ground, key defensive positions, 7.62 rifles, grenades, and more.

[Consuela]

If a vehicle is in the way of police operations' date=' the police are completely in their right to move it out of harms way, they cannot impond it, or move it further than necessary.

No joke, saw Durga move an entire orca from blocking the ladder of the bank roof when he was Cpt.

Also, cops cant lockpick cars, its impossible, the ability to is linked to a civ talent, they dont have it, they can only lockpick restraints, (And only Sgts can buy them, as it resets your Civ bounty through bugs)[/quote']

Didn't knew that, thanks man.

[Consuela]

This same situation can be seen when attempting a prison break, sort of. Most of the time rebels block the entrance to the bridge and what goes on is cops fighting from 250m away, or they go through the beach in a boat or heli to try and flank them. And as CaliDazze said, I've seen them smash a Strider in order to blow up a car because they can't move it without being shot at.

[Olivia]

From the Guidebook, APD Assistance Directory, 1.12 Police Conduct

So to answer your question, yes cops can move civ vehicles during combat, without the civ's permission, only to get it out of the way. Most common case is if civs use a HEMTT to block the bridge to prison, we are allowed to move it.

Also only SGT+ are allowed to use lockpicks and even then I know that SGT's can't lockpick cars (not sure about LT+).

[Isper]

if your using the veh to block, we can move,,, at least they were nice enough to move it for you... i use my hunter

so if you want to use a veh to block something from police... like everyone elts says its a cheap move, but also if can be moved by officers and be prepared to lose it as we can use armored veh if we cant safely move it by driving

[Consuela]

From the Guidebook' date=' APD Assistance Directory, 1.12'>https://gyazo.com/d57ab9f57c6be5e33357220e01437554"]1.12 Police Conduct

So to answer your question, yes cops can move civ vehicles during combat, without the civ's permission, only to get it out of the way. Most common case is if civs use a HEMTT to block the bridge to prison, we are allowed to move it.

Also only SGT+ are allowed to use lockpicks and even then I know that SGT's can't lockpick cars (not sure about LT+).

Thanks for the reference. Really appreciate it.

[Kowalski]

Looks like the whole issue of police being allowed to move cars has been addressed.

I personally prefer entering in a heli though.

[Jessie Slaughter]

They do' date=' for many cases, but mainly bugged restraints, etc. The thing is, I agree with Midamaru in small situations, or trolls, like blocking a HQ with a HEMTT, or emergency situations on the road, processing people, etc. But, if the car servers a strategical purpose in a firefight, and it is locked, should cops be allowed to move them freely? More specifically, if the car is no further than 40meters from me and I'm using it to block an entrance that flanks me, on any situation, can they just move it, or should they be required to lockpick in order to simulate real-life procedures a little bit? What do you think?[/quote']

If we were going to simulate real life tactics, then everyone would be getting lethaled almost all the time because cops IRL don't use tasers against huge weapons. Think about it. This is a game and it's supposed to be balanced for both cops and civs. Block off the entrances and we will move the car or jump in and out. Lucky we still don't have 50 cals or we'd probably blow it up as well. And cops can't lockpick cars because we have the ability to enter any car, locked or not, this is prevent civs from stealing every car we have if we had to keep it open for other cops to use.

Enjoy the game, learn to do the bank without blocking shit off, it's not that hard. the bank is OP for civs and easy as fuck.

[Consuela]

If we were going to simulate real life tactics' date=' then everyone would be getting lethaled almost all the time because cops IRL don't use tasers against huge weapons. Think about it. This is a game and it's supposed to be balanced for both cops and civs. Block off the entrances and we will move the car or jump in and out. Lucky we still don't have 50 cals or we'd probably blow it up as well. And cops can't lockpick cars because we have the ability to enter any car, locked or not, this is prevent civs from stealing every car we have if we had to keep it open for other cops to use.

Enjoy the game, learn to do the bank without blocking shit off, it's not that hard. the bank is OP for civs and easy as fuck.

[/quote']

Again, matter on discussion is not my ability to do the bank in a "community-accepted" way, which was ASSUMED to be none at all by almost everyone, but thanks for your comments, they are appreciated.

[Dust Runner]

I drove an Ifrit away to a police HQ and seized it after pursing a gang to meth cartel, killing all the occupants, and leaving with it. (<3 Synergy) I miss the old days. You guys have it easy nowadays compared to what kind of equipment and power police used to have back in the day. LTs and Captains used to have .50 cals, and could drive illegal vehicles back to HQs and seize them and blow them up with a .50 if they wanted to. That was how shit used to be. On top of that cops didn't have to pay for gear or spend time gearing up combined with those things + Orcas and Armored vehicles. With the fed being cop sided nowadays with SWAT rebels don't risk their necks for that. Prison is meh because gangs aren't big enough to play the back that well so its fairly balanced. Bank is aids because on cop its like playing the lottery. I have to take a risk and hope every single time, that my car goes across that stretch of land safely so I can get into an only slightly better position to fight at against an imbalanced objective. To win you have to wait 10 minutes, run down/up some stairs and fly away while shooting over what I'd like to quote Eptic on, "Africa." Pretty sure cops are the only factions where every time they fight at objective based fights they have to take risks, and that is frustrating as someone who spends their majority of time playing the police faction. The Bank of Altis is a piece of garbage. I really don't like zerging as a tactic, too bad that's just how Paratus has forcibly moved the dynamic towards in terms of Cop vs Rebel combat.

[DreamC]

If you blow out the tires of a car blocking the door we basically have to sit there in the open for 15 seconds repairing anyway, in a sense its like lockpicking

[Poko]

If a vehicle is in the way of police operations' date=' the police are completely in their right to move it out of harms way, they cannot impond it, or move it further than necessary.

No joke, saw Durga move an entire orca from blocking the ladder of the bank roof when he was Cpt.

Also, cops cant lockpick cars, its impossible, the ability to is linked to a civ talent, they dont have it, they can only lockpick restraints, (And only Sgts can buy them, as it resets your Civ bounty through bugs)[/quote']

I've also seen Durga break every rule in the book, because he can. So that's not a very good example.

That being said this is probably the only time I'll defend the cops considering they cheat 90% of the time : They definitely should be able to move vehicles. It would be way too civ sided if they couldn't considering we could just stack hemmtts everywhere

[Consuela]

I've also seen Durga break every rule in the book' date=' because he can. So that's not a very good example.

That being said this is probably the only time I'll defend the cops considering they cheat 90% of the time : They definitely should be able to move vehicles. It would be way too civ sided if they couldn't considering we could just stack hemmtts everywhere[/quote']

It's not about moving vehicles in a general term, it's on specific circumstances, but that's already been discussed. Interesting point on Durga's actions. I've seen, recently, many cops break the rules and fuck too much with civs on day to day situations, and then they're like not touchable, not even if you submit reports on internal affairs with plenty of evidence, etc.

[Consuela]

I drove an Ifrit away to a police HQ and seized it after pursing a gang to meth cartel' date=' killing all the occupants, and leaving with it. (<3 Synergy) I miss the old days. You guys have it easy nowadays compared to what kind of equipment and power police used to have back in the day. LTs and Captains used to have .50 cals, and could drive illegal vehicles back to HQs and seize them and blow them up with a .50 if they wanted to. That was how shit used to be. On top of that cops didn't have to pay for gear or spend time gearing up combined with those things + Orcas and Armored vehicles. With the fed being cop sided nowadays with SWAT rebels don't risk their necks for that. Prison is meh because gangs aren't big enough to play the back that well so its fairly balanced. Bank is aids because on cop its like playing the lottery. I have to take a risk and hope every single time, that my car goes across that stretch of land safely so I can get into an only slightly better position to fight at against an imbalanced objective. To win you have to wait 10 minutes, run down/up some stairs and fly away while shooting over what I'd like to quote Eptic on, "Africa." Pretty sure cops are the only factions where every time they fight at objective based fights they have to take risks, and that is frustrating as someone who spends their majority of time playing the police faction. The Bank of Altis is a piece of garbage. I really don't like zerging as a tactic, too bad that's just how Paratus has forcibly moved the dynamic towards in terms of Cop vs Rebel combat.

I mean, buying the whole equipment and loadouts to do such a feat is a far bigger risk, in monetary terms, for the Rebels than for the APD. But I most agree with you in most of what you stated, specially the zerging tactic for cops. It's not enjoyable for both sides, for rebels it is annoying to keep killing the same cops over and over for ten minutes, and for cops is equally annoying to go and fight on an unbalanced terrain over and over, because YOU HAVE TO. I dunno, maybe one of the Admins looks at this post and brings to the table the option to make a change on the bank robbery, prison break, and federal. Maybe we get something new, or at least different from what we have. Dunno, but I like this type of discussion.

[Consuela]

If you blow out the tires of a car blocking the door we basically have to sit there in the open for 15 seconds repairing anyway' date=' in a sense its like lockpicking[/quote']

If it's a HEMMT, or a Zamak, its a lot of tires and bullets to shoot off, cuz it moves with a few tires. If you do that to a hatchback, offroad, or suv, the APD usually just blows it up, or runs right throught it. Box Truck is the medium, I guess.

[Hiraku]

That being said this is probably the only time I'll defend the cops considering they cheat 90% of the time :

Only seen a cop 'cheat' once and he got an exploit ban for it.

I have however, seen rebels cry 'cheat' when they get beaten by cops because they cant stand the fact the faction they are meant to walk all over just won.

[Zoex]

Also only SGT+ are allowed to use lockpicks and even then I know that SGT's can't lockpick cars (not sure about LT+).

In response to that' date=' LTs cannot either.

In response to the "Moving vehicles" scenario you are talking about here, it is permitted, to certain boundaries.

[b']YES, you can move cars a little bit out of the way so they will not be blocking the way.

YES, whenever you put your cars on the way, you risk them being lost.

NO, an officer can not drive them a few hundred meters away in order to search them, would be really unfair toward civilians/rebels.

[Hypanius]

To help ease your mind on APD procedure on the matter at hand, we allow our officers to find ways of getting a job done as long as they do not break any server rules or APD procedures. Getting into locked cars like this has come up multiple times and is not an exploit. In fact it is explicitly in the APD guidelines as being allowed to do if the vehicle is obstructing an area we need to get to. So if a vehicle is blocking the entrance to prison, bank, fed, we will move it. Now, regarding ramming vehicles is also a rule in the guidebook that has some interpretation. Ramming vehicles in order to blow up, kill, mane someone is against APD procedure and server rules. Our ramming procedure is primarily regarding vehicle pursuits. However, the APD is backed up by support to nudge vehicles, blocking access to area, out of the way with armored vehicles (hunters and strikers) or the use of smaller vehicles in a non violent manner. This does not allow APD to continuously ram a car until it blows up, but does allow pushing unoccupied vehicles out of the way. Accidents and arma physics happen and things blow up and civilians/rebels risk their property if they block an area and should not expect money from the police. If civilians/rebels decide they will use manned vehicle blockades, then we will have to talk to the admins regarding that to determine what actions the APD can take. However, I have not seen a group do that yet...

[HotWings]

Honestly, when you park 5 SUVs around every entrance what do you expect me to tell my officers to do? Am I supposed to just allow you to rob the bank with no recourse because you have a chopper and parked 100 cars outside? Not going to happen... I RP'd when asked that my officers broke the window to gain access, but all that did was intensify the whining. If you are going to use a shady tactic the APD will respond with whatever means needed to circumvent that tactic. Honestly, we could have move them all since you had no one covering the first floor and they all had tires, instead the single officer who got in and downed and restrained your entire gang passed thru the windows after breaking them. Cpt Hypanius covered all the points I was trying to explain in game when you decided to yell instead of listen.

[Hakeem]

I drove an Ifrit away to a police HQ and seized it after pursing a gang to meth cartel' date=' killing all the occupants, and leaving with it. (<3 Synergy) I miss the old days. You guys have it easy nowadays compared to what kind of equipment and power police used to have back in the day. LTs and Captains used to have .50 cals, and could drive illegal vehicles back to HQs and seize them and blow them up with a .50 if they wanted to. That was how shit used to be. On top of that cops didn't have to pay for gear or spend time gearing up combined with those things + Orcas and Armored vehicles. With the fed being cop sided nowadays with SWAT rebels don't risk their necks for that. Prison is meh because gangs aren't big enough to play the back that well so its fairly balanced. Bank is aids because on cop its like playing the lottery. I have to take a risk and hope every single time, that my car goes across that stretch of land safely so I can get into an only slightly better position to fight at against an imbalanced objective. To win you have to wait 10 minutes, run down/up some stairs and fly away while shooting over what I'd like to quote Eptic on, "Africa." Pretty sure cops are the only factions where every time they fight at objective based fights they have to take risks, and that is frustrating as someone who spends their majority of time playing the police faction. The Bank of Altis is a piece of garbage. I really don't like zerging as a tactic, too bad that's just how Paratus has forcibly moved the dynamic towards in terms of Cop vs Rebel combat.

you are risking what? a 15k gun? a well geared rebel spends around 30k, you bringing your hunter/strider thats YOUR problem , no one told you to bring a hunter/strider to a certain situation you are risking it. Now you talk about imbalanced, underpowered APD, disadvantage all the time, ingame, in forums, so why dont you just quit the APD? instead of ruining the game for other people(specially NEW people or NEW gangs), just because you dont like something doesnt mean you have to abuse your "powers" or abilities, you may be a LT but you are not above anyone, apd rebels and civs at the end are just players trying to have fun.

[xXx42oNoSc0pExXx]

Yes but in a real life situation a cop can literally just go over the car sooo