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So I'd say it's fair to take a good honest look at the benefits and disadvantages of both. Before you read this understand it's just my opinion, and I would like to see what the community thinks as a whole. Please keep the thread clean, I don't wanna see it locked for stupid shit. I don't want your forum likes, I just want this thread to be genuinely considered for what it is, the communities opinion. That being said please state yours. @bamf Advantages of the fridge: The fridge makes more money due to it auto generating. It gives lower ranking gang members direct access to a source of income that would otherwise go into the gang bank Occasionally someone will roll up to rebel with virtually free dirty money on them to take. Disadvantages of the fridge: Gangs seem to no longer fight for the cap of the cartel to constantly hold and put their name on the map, they fight for the money or only for the sake of fighting. People become rats, camping the cartel and rebel, as opposed to actually capping it and getting involved in that part of rebel life. Newer gangs tend to only cap your cartels when you are offline, resulting in them never, or very rarely actually fighting the cartel. Gang members can rat the cartel money, resulting in not all of it going into gang bank. It's not easy to prevent, and it's relatively hard to find out who's doing it when no one else is on. In turn members start to play for them selves and not the gang. you can get an idea if people are in the middle of running drugs by simply looking at the drug cartel go up if you check it regularly. Advantages to the auto paying Cartel: Gang's don't have to pickup from drug literally every 20 or 30 minutes when they could be doing a fed, bank, or a prison. constantly holding the cartel becomes astronomically more important, in the eyes of a newer gang you never know what amount of money you could be missing out on. With the fridge, the amount you could not obtain by leaving the cartel alone is finite, further discouraging them from capping the cartel if there is very little in the fridge. Less rats and more gangs that fight cartels would start to form. Disadvantages of auto paying cartels: You would make less money with out the dirty money auto generating within the fridge. (This is a good and a bad thing I'll restate it and why at the bottom.) lower ranking gang members can no longer comp them selves. Players who are literally brand new to arma/asylum might not be interested in capping cartels if they don't understand or see the monetary gain involved with it. You would make less money with out the dirty money auto generating within the fridge. So this is in my opinion a good and a bad thing because you would make less money overall with out dirty money auto generating, on the other hand you would be given the incentive to protect your drug runners. That is for the simple reason that drug runners make you money, if you protect them you make more. It would require more work on the rebel side, but would actually give them the ability to fight cops and people robbing your drug runners along the way. I doubt we would see any community meth runs like we use to because of the dynamic market, but it would be nice to see some newer players get somewhere with a little help from the rebel community.

How about you increase drug cartel income or change arms to take a cut from illegal firearms. The money earned from cartels will be paid out in "dirty money" directly to gang account. Now this money Can be washed clean at the bank by scrolling on the computer while carrying the money. Set a minimal or maximal for how much per bank or perhaps increase the timer per x amount of dirty money. This way gangs can earn alot of money by cartels but they'll have to risk it by bringing it to the bank. Now this is alot of effort and risk added and should pay out well. Just a suggestion, i'm not even playing asylum anymore. tweak, discuss or change to liking

OK, so let's take a look at this from my side of the fence. As a preface, since many of you probably don't know, I was part of the gang scene back in the day (no, I wasn't always a cop on the servers) - so I do have an appreciation for your arguments (whether you think I do or not). I'll go through point by point on your comments and then add my own... @Steve's points: Advantages of the fridge: It absolutely makes more money for your gang in the current methodology - provided you actually clear out the fridge. This is a double edged sword of sorts. Back in Innovative we had a member who at night would "watch the cartels". What he was really doing was cleaning out the gang bank (he was rank 2), albeit he was doing it slowly. So even though the money was going directly into the gang bank, he still had access to this money. Therefore, I call this one a wash in my opinion. Agreed. Who doesn't love robbing the solo guy who thinks he's safe at rebel right? Disadvantages of the fridge: Having your "name on the map" is not a bad thing. Also, that fridge is constantly generating money. If someone taps the cap (fridge or not), you stop generating income into your bank account. I think having rats at rebel increases the sense that rebel isn't safe, but that's just me. This happens regardless of system we use. If the gang controlling a cartel isn't online, then they are not really controlling the cartel are they? See point 2 from above. Members of sufficient rank are doing this now anyway, we are just not telling you about it... You see a disadvantage, I see the need to try to protect those people because I know they are actively on a run - and I make more money if they make money. Advantages of auto paying cartels: Gangs shouldn't have to pickup the money every 20-30 minutes now. I've let the money roll over between play sessions (which is a pretty big buff to the cartel fridge honestly), so even at server reset you no longer have to be rushing to get this done before the server restarts. Holding the cartel is important either way. You have to hold it to make money. With the auto paying cartel though, if you know no one is running drugs then there is no incentive for you to fight for that cap. With the fridge money pours in either way. I'll explain why I feel like your logic for this is flawed down below. Disadvantages of the auto paying cartels: True. You will always have less money making potential without us creating money for you. You're basically getting a bonus for having your name on the map right now. Also, the higher the player count, the higher that bonus is (did you know that?). True. True. OK, there's my thoughts on all of @Steve's thoughts. Now with that being said, let's talk about why lots of these types of changes were made back in the day (well before I was a developer here, but while I was an admin/CM/etc). Back in April or so of 2015 (I think it was 2015) there was a meta on the server of 2 major gangs splitting the cartels and each holding 2. There was a gentleman's agreement not to go after each other's cartels, and to help defend the other gang's cartels if they came under attack. This lasted for a month or two on each server, and then the two dominate gangs on S1 decided to just merge and became Innovative. Now a single gang on S1 held all 4 cartels virtually 24 hours a day. Inevitably, there was some small period of the night where all the members would be offline (we had 40-50 overall members IIRC) so the window was small - but that was the only time someone would take the cartel from us. I work at home, so each morning I'd drink coffee, check email, and afk cap all the cartels back for us (and I almost never got shot at). This meta spread to the other servers. S1 had Innovative, S2 had Bad Blood, etc. etc. During this time, hardly anyone fought for control of the cartels. Each member of Innovative got between 2 and 4 million per week in gang payouts because the money literally just flowed in with no end in sight. Gangs got bigger and bigger, had "unlimited" money, and wreaked havoc on the server(s). I'm not going to say it wasn't fun for us (because it was), but at some point we missed people actually wanting to fight for the cartels. Anyone who was worth having would join our gang, so there was no real competition. There were no fights to be had - except against the other large gang on every server - the APD. Gangs during this period absolutely ravaged the APD. Better equipment, no fear of losing gear because defibs had been introduced (and you always outnumbered the APD so you always got a revive), and always seeming to have numbers on the cops. We robbed and pillaged everyone who didn't buy a "meth pass" (another huge source of income for the gang allowing us to make money on people playing twice). We even robbed people doing legal stuff and would let them live (and keep their truck) if they promised to start running drugs so we could make more money that way. It was the gang golden era. No doubts about it. But eventually we just got... bored... No fights except the APD, and we always beat them. People would only troll cap part of the cartel to be jackasses, but we'd have to fly over and run up to the cartel only to have to sit there while it went back to 100% from 90. The devs noticed that no one was fighting for the cartels. The whole point of the cartels was to bring fights to the server, and it wasn't doing that since everyone was holding hands and not actually fighting over them. So an idea was born. An idea of giving something to actually fight for at the cartel itself. Enter the era of the fridge. A decision was made to actually just "create" money to make it more attractive to fight for the fridge. By this time we had dropped the group and gang hex limits, but that had not dissuaded the more organized large gangs from staying huge. The fridge system, however, did finally get smaller gangs to want to go and challenge for the cartels. Part of this was that the larger gangs got frustrated that money wasn't just flowing straight into their gang banks. The big gangs said "there's not enough money there to even be worth fighting for", yet dirty money became the #1 (or #2) money maker on the servers when you look at the logs ($32M in the last week). But the smaller gangs could see there was money in controlling the cartels, so they actually went for them now. People were actually using the fridge system, and they still do. That brings us to where we are today. We've made a few concessions along the way to try to bring back the feel that some of you want. We have slowly increased the group cap, we have tweaked the amounts of "created" money going into the cartels, and finally we have made the fridge not reset with the server (making fighting for the cartel at server startup something that is "worth doing"). The community goals system also has an increase to what the fridge can hold, giving veterans who may not have donated in years a reason to kick in for server costs occasionally. Now, with all of that being said... I'm not opposed to ideas that try to keep the spirit of what we want intact. We want you guys to fight. Going back to the direct deposit method I really fear will just bring back "super gangs" and will not actually get you fights at the cartels. It will at first, but that will end when people realize they can make more money by just grouping up and having no real rival on each server. Does it make sense what the devs are hoping to do here? We want you to have a reason to fight, and not have a reason to hold hands and have free money super gangs. We want you guys to have an incentive to go out and rob people (or is it protect them) who are running drugs. We want you to have a reason to go and do the higher end content (fed, bank, prison break), but we don't want them to devolve into cop sport shoots. I'm open to ideas, but going back to the old days is not necessarily the panacea that some of you think it would be... Bamf P.S. Why are you guys still thinking that the market system prevents doing "community" runs of anything? The high end drugs don't start taking a hit on price until 1500 are on the market. How many HEMTTs is that again of a drug before you take even a single dollar hit???

Would love to see that you can store your money in your house's chest even dirty money, store it in a chest and launder it on a later date. Would love to see myself not going to the ATM all the time but just grab some cash from the chest inside my house. Seems more then logical to me you could store money inside your house. Anyway, just my opinion

https://www.gaming-asylum.com/forums/index.php?/search/&q="dirty money"&search_and_or=or&sortby=relevancy if you look at these links, you will find many answers. This places walls were crawling with people asking for the dirty money to be removed. We have auto run, and BH tracking has been a thing since I started here? I am confused rapidkillz by your logic and questions here.

Log in at rebel Kill whoever is trying to autohover land at rebel with 190k dirty money ???? Profit!

One thing that asylum has been known for is their logs. It's quite rare for a truly major exploit to go unseen for a long time. We have seen the performance get worse and worse(generally) over the last couple of years. Since then I wouldn't be surprised if the amount of logging taking place has doubled or more since then. I'm sure all of it is for good reason but that doesn't change that it can and eventually will hurt server performance. Perhaps this could be looked into and maybe there is some logging taking place that is no longer needed or relevant for that matter. @bamf I'll give an example of what I am talking about, not that this is the issue and probably is not, just something to think about in a different light. After the bank was changed from dirty money to bank notes, is it possible that their is still logging regarding the bank for dirty money? I'm not really knowledgeable with SQF, but to just throw the idea out there, maybe the logging for the dirty money is running in an endless loop with no delay between the loops, hence why people say the server lags after or during a bank. In simple terms the logging system might be checking for dirty money that is not there over and over . Again this particular bit regarding the bank is likely not the root of the issue at all, but if the issue does not come from the mission file or the server boxes themselves, where would it come from?

so you finally realize that money from cartels going straight to gung funds is ruining the economy? bring back dirty money and increase the cost of clothing/weapons so people craft. I like the house bill cuz I actually know what Im doing. I played asylum when it was hard so for me, this shits easy. see how everyone is crying and complaining? Children... stop favoring the children they're all little boys that want it simple and easy. fuck em

1. Thats your opinion. Dirty money brought a risk. People like risk. It makes your blood boil and increases your heart rate. For some, it brings a desire to be the best, to enter the competition, and to cap a cartel for the money and see through to rebel that you clear it. You probably didn't like it because its to hard for you, so once you cap the cartel you have nothing else to look forward to because it safely, transfers itself from a fridge to a bank account. Nice roleplay btw. You should change the fridge into an atm if you're going to make it instantly enter the gang funds. If you would rather fight the cops, then don't go to cartels? No gang, at least hardly, will ever camp all 3 rebels, unless they know a gang just collected a large amount of dirty money. (200k+) You have more of a chance just running into people at rebel, which is why you send in scouts, coordinated teams, ect.. 2. I am not in a gang. Stop assuming that I am. I am a solo player so yeah, roaching a cartel and chopping and orca, 160k would be a decent amount of money for me, mostly because I know how to spend my money and Im not buying full load outs every 20min. You're coming from a 5+ man point of view. Protect meth runners, doing feds/banks, ect.. Start considering that a large part of asylum contains a lot of players that roll solo or might have a friend here and their. Asylum isn't made for big gangs. It contains all sorts of personalities. Removing dirty money ruined it for players who are willing to camp for long periods of time. Its not always about the money. Some just enjoy giving others heart attacks as they grab the money and get shot, knowing their orca will be chopped. Sorry you can't handle stress. Little boy. Asylum was once the dwelling place of many mature/savage players who enjoyed competition. It has obviously gained favor for the weak little cry babies. All the good players got banned for essentially nothing.

As much as people love dirty money, I'm honestly surprised by the backlash. FWIW, this was how the bank was always supposed to be coded, but Paratus decided to use dirty money since it was already there. By changing the payout from dirty money to something else, I have simplified your ability to rob the bank, and decreased the forced choke points (rebel outposts) where you could convert that to actual money. For those that were here a long time ago you will likely remember the old bank mechanic where you couldn't deposit the money for 10 minutes after robbing the bank which gave the cops a chance to capture you. Back then, only statically placed ATMs could be used to deposit money, so it would limit your chance to get the money banked after the 10 minute timer. Now every ATM you see is usable and you can deposit the money literally almost anywhere. All you have to do is get away and then use the Banded Bank Money from your inventory and then deposit it. Oh, also back then if you as a player didn't have insurance and the bank was robbed it would take money from your bank account to cover the costs of the robbery. So while I get that you like cake, and you're very used to the type of cake you have been served for a while, perhaps in this instance you should try out the new cake recipe and see how you like it.

We actually ran a poll when myself and Badabing took ownership. It was overwhelmingly in favor for depositing money straight into the bank like pre 6.0 cartels. While I do agree the mini-game was fun of having dirty money, a lot of people did not WANT that anymore. Even if having dirty money produced MORE money than actually just being dropped into their gang account, they still would prefer direct deposit.

Sitting at cartels for hours on end and killing people that grab the dirty money, then taking their helicopter. Please, if you have any thoughts on what will make asylum more active, is to re-implement your dirty money method. It used to be the only reason Id log on, as well as many others. Its just... to easy to have the cartel money go straight to your bank... It ruins the economy because people cap cartels and don't do runs...(thus making cop more boring because less people are doing runs) The community would appreciate a logical response on why you decided to change this.

In several areas around the map, there lies large structures untouched by players. These structures are power plants, solar energy farms and windmills. I had a great idea while reading the forums the other day about how to capitalize on at least one of these spots. It's a mix between bank and cartels. It moves around the map to different power plants, but the idea stays the same. The power plant is either held by rebels (not by specific gangs, just rebels/civilians in general), or by the APD. It is always a KOS zone, regardless of who holds it. But, if the police own it, their pay doubled, and every online APD officer receives a pay bonus depending on how many people are on and divided by how many officers are on (i.e. 6 people, one of them being an APD officer, are on and the officer recieves 6k, or 100 people are on with 10 being cops, and every officer recieves 10k. But, if the rebels hold it, dirty money stockpiles in the middle of the plant. The money remains through transfers of power, but no rebel can pull it out if the plant is held by the APD. If the plant is held by rebels, ANY person with a rebel license and an illegal firearm can pull it out, whether they just bought the license and they have an SDAR, or they're the leader of a big deal rebel gang rolling with 15 ifrits and every person armed with Mk-1s and RPGs. For rebels to capture the power plant, any person, again, with an illegal firearm and rebel license, has to apply a SATCOM, purchasable at any rebel outpost. The person then must proceed to stand by the power plant controls for about 30-60 seconds while the plant is hacked. When the plant is hacked, a door will become unlocked and any person can walk into the control room, and pull out the dirty money. From there, as usual, the person must sell the dirty money at the rebel market. The stored dirty money has a cap of about 150-200k. For the APD to capture the power plant, EVERY civilian must either be outside of the plant's KOS zone or restrained. Then, a police officer must restore the plant by standing in the control room for about 2-3 minutes. After capture, the plant is unable to recaptured by either side for another 15-20 minutes. The idea is that the power plant is making money by powering altis, so instead of rising by how many people purchase weapons or sell drugs, it rises based on how many players are on. When 1-20 players are on, it rises by 50 every minute. When 21-50 players are on, it rises by 150 every minute. When 51-80 players are one, it rises by 250 every minute. When 81-100 players are on, it rises by 1000 every minute. Just a post I wrote while sitting in one spot farming meth ingredients. Feel to free to edit/criticize however you want.

@DorbeshCome on man.... Dirty money is what made asylum stand out from the rest. Their would be so much hype amoungst gangs/players that the dirty money was taken and they would be going to this rebel or that rebel and people would go their anticipating the players arrival and its things like that, that makes players come back.

The fed reserve system wouldn't impact comp reports at all since it would work off the current system implemented on the back end for life money. Essentially savings would stay in your account but during a robbery, if you aren't insured, you lose a % of it. Conversely, by keeping your money in an insured account, you could earn interest off of it long term as long as fed reserve/bank robbery's are stopped by the APD. Hell this would give people incentive to help the APD stop fed reserves since a % of their money would be at stake. Keep in mind a very basic system of this type is already built into the Altis Life framework but it was modified/removed by Asylum. Yep exactly. Nothing changes for cartel payouts as it is right now but you have the potential to earn 2x that if you launder the increased dirty money amount. So 200k in dirty money--->rebel outpost--->100k net or 200k dirty money-->launder 200k-->200k net.

i like the effort,but fuck bringing dirty money back that was aids,granted it kept you on your toes but just plain aids. The APD will prob never change. Also remember this isnt a " RP " server its more combat oriented for PVP. The sooner you understand the rules around this the better experience you will get out of it,imho anyway

PHYSICAL DIRTY MONEY. SPECIAL WEAPONS U CAN BUY WITH BLOOD MONEY. THIS WILL INCREASE WARS. SINCE ASYLUM DOESN'T BELEIVE IN ALLIANCE JUST KILL KILL KILL. IF U NEED TO GRAB THE FUKING MONEY FROM THE FRIDGE MORE FUKERS WILL GO TO THE CARTEL AND PPL WILL TRY TO GET THE 100K R0000000000FL THE FUCK R U DOIN ASYLUM? u cater to the little kids that cry and pout and cryyyyyyyy

I want to say yes, but not all of the potential profits from cartels should be dirty money. If possible I’d say 25% of the money should become dirty money that anyone in the current ownership can access, also giving other players more incentive to capture cartels

Drug-Vehicle-Weapon Lockup With Recent Administration Events I Thought It Would Be A Great Suggestion And Post This Location Oil Processor / Compound Rebels Will Be Able To Hack Into The Dooms / Vaults To Be Able To Retain Seized Vehicles And Seize Weaponry and Also Dirty Money. When A Cop Seizes A Vehicle, Not Only The Vehicle They Seize, The Amount Of Contents It Was Seized For Will Be In Vaults In Dirty Money. After Drill Time The Vehicle Will Magically Spawn In The Shed / Shelter To The North Of The Compound,Where Rebels Can Drive To The Nearest Chop Shop To Chop For Money. Using Zaros As A Turf Will Be Worth Having During Given In Global Chat When Ever A Vehicle Is Searched and Seized Player / Rebels Will Be Able To Tell If Any Good Content Will be Given In The Lock Up. Not Only Seizes Vehicles And Drugs, Seized Weaponry Will Be Spawned In Large Crates Around The Compound And Be Able To Retain Illegal Guns And Or Be Able To Store In House. The Rebels Will Have A Drill Time of 20 Minutes, But Also Can Drill Into Smaller Vaults for Extra Goods. BLUE SECTION = Vehicle Lockup (20 Minutes to hack) RED SECTION = Drugs / Dirty Cash (20 Minutes to hack) PURPLE SECTION = Locked Up Firearms ( Normal Safe Cracking Time For Individual Safes) After 20 Minutes Of Cracking Seized Vehicles Will "spawn" under these sheds Cops /APD 7 Cops To Start 12 Cops To Start If Federal Reserve / Bank / Prison Break In Progress SWAT 2 Strider Spawns AND JUST ANOTHER SUGGESTION OR ADDITIVE Humming Bird ?

Dirty money. This will allow the individuals that want to cap cartels actually cap cartels rather than saying fuck it i wont get shit from the gang funds so im not going to cap them. Talk is big payouts are cheap leaders end up snaking funds in the end. 90% of the time. A cartel near the mountains east of kavala. Those rocks and hills would make exellent snipe fights + adding to our playstyle/tactics being able to flank around big hills, the massive rocks, ect... add a shop to kavala cave that lets you trade in xhuman organs for an item or bonus. Allow cartel life/gang rating to allow us to be able to get new skins. Another way to increase your player base is making skins obtainable by actually playing the game not only donating.

Me personally, I'm fine with the way it is now. If you encourage people to run drugs while you hold the drug cartel you make a metric shit ton. It reminds me of the fun I had with Asylum nearly 3 years ago. Though I believe the odds of bamf or Gnashes making a change like this are 1/10 and that is being generous but regardless, here's 2 different ideas. 1.The dirty money that auto generates is put in the fridge for manual pick up. The money that we make from people actually buying guns, processing drugs or selling scotch is directly deposited. 2.Money auto generates and the money from drugs processed/sold etc are deposited directly into the gang funds with the cost of the dirty money generated being cut in half all across the board. The reason I say that is because let's say it generates 3k/5 minutes with 100 people on, that would turn into 1.5k. Normally we will say it would be 1.5k/5 minutes with 50 players on, that now turns to 0.75k. (These are just example numbers I don't know what the equation is but you get the point.)

You are talking about singular situations that aren't going to happen every cartel you fight. You're telling me every cartel you've ever fought you made out with an ifrit or orca? Every time? Brandon weren't you in imperium??? Anyways especially if said gang comes at you with 8-10 people when it is just the two or 3 of you? Goodluck if at arms or any other place that isn't a big tower push and especially with your shot lol. So on that side you need more people to help defend certain positions, let's say 6 of you for your sake cause you and your friends are all so god tier. 100k dirty money if you lucky, what 40k chop on ifrit? So that is 23k each person... oh jheesh you got your loadout back... again not enough to keep finances stable smh. Sure cartels are meant about the fight, but they are also about the incentive to fight them. The dirty money is capped off at 100k and with that its fucking dirty money. All I'm asking is to let gangs keep the benefits until the cartel has been brought down to 0%. That is technically when you don't have ownership of it anyways(you don't get the pings after that) so it just makes damn sense! Don't get what you're not seeing by this...

ive only got 8 request and most of them are dirty money i think the only one tht isnt dirty money is an orca and dirty money

In my opinion what Asylum needs for cartels is a change to the way the fridge works. The fridge was put in because gangs were making too much money off cartels with little work involved. As it stands right now with the mass kicks and such you will often times go pick up from a cartel and get kicked with the dirty money on you while you were flying to a rebel. It's frustrating and of course you can submit comp but we all know that takes a good put of time and sometimes a few days for it to get approved. I suggest @bamf you make it so that instead of having to sell the dirty money to rebel, gangs can go to the cartel and scroll wheel on the fridge and simply deliver it to the gang bank. This removes rats taking the money for themselves entirely, it also discourages a pistol banger camping the cartel and instead encourages them to the actually cap it. Isn't that what we all want is more cartel fights not some new player who is gang-less who kills maybe one of you at the cartel but you kill the pistol banger and get the your team mate revived. It turns into a nasty spiral of less cartel fights and more people capping for the money not for the competitive aspect of putting your name on the map which is how it used to be. Edit: as much as I would love to see cartel money go straight to the gang bank, this is the best compromise I could think of and I'm sure many people would be happy to see it.

In my opinion what Asylum needs for cartels is a change to the way the fridge works. The fridge was put in because gangs were making too much money off cartels with little work involved. As it stands right now with the mass kicks and such you will often times go pick up from a cartel and get kicked with the dirty money on you while you were flying to a rebel. It's frustrating and of course you can submit comp but we all know that takes a good put of time and sometimes a few days for it to get approved. I suggest @bamf you make it so that instead of having to sell the dirty money to rebel, gangs can go to the cartel and scroll wheel on the fridge and simply deliver it to the gang bank. This removes rats taking the money for themselves entirely, it also discourages a pistol banger camping the cartel and instead encourages them to the actually cap it. Isn't that what we all want is more cartel fights not some new player who is gang-less who kills maybe one of you at the cartel but you kill the pistol banger and get the your team mate revived. It turns into a nasty spiral of less cartel fights and more people capping for the money not for the competitive aspect of putting your name on the map which is how it used to be. Edit: as much as I would love to see cartel money go straight to the gang bank, this is the best compromise I could think of and I'm sure many people would be happy to see it.