Fried Rice Posted April 13 Report Share Posted April 13 The idea of the national HQ is awesome and the perks you can gain from it are worth the reward however it is impossible to be fought on the cop side. Mobile HQ What's the point in pulling a Mobile HQ for it to be vested 2 minutes into the fight. Change the mobile for National HQ only to be in god mode. Almost every National done people hop around in channels begging for cops to log on just to be destroyed. There's no incentive for cops to log other than a promised payout from admins or an MK1 due to it being impossible to push a 30-50 man group. Eventually cops will stop logging on for the civ's and it will only be done when that perfect number of cops are online. The Mobile HQ allows the cops a safe spawn close to the event and its taken away every time. You could also add in a NEW HQ close to the event which would allow cops to spawn without the worry of being blown up. Other entry points From what I've seen there's tons of entry points to the compound but they are all locked? I'm not sure if its intended or not coded properly but its near impossible to push. Its supposed to be the TOP TIER END OF GAME EVENT that the cops will never win or get close to winning. How is that end game? A bank is more challenging to win then the National at this point. When a national is done its guaranteed you will get a token if you don't ego peak every cop you see. The roof is the main point of entry for cops but when there's 15 rebels on the roof and another 5 on construction how are you supposed to combat that? Especially now when people have tier 3 and tier 4 tokens that allow them weapons to rip through orcas like paper. Cop Morale This event is nothing but a middle finger to the cops. They never win and when the rebels win they get access to better equipment to give the cops a harder time. We want people to play the server and stick around and this event does the opposite. Any other event besides the prison there is a reward for the cops whether it be gold, bank notes, etc. I understand it spawns a truck with APD intel but once again 30-50 man group makes that hard to get ahold of. Even if the cops somehow win this event 80% of them will be lethaled and go to the HQ to save the 20% we did manage to capture. If an event like this is going to be done add a group cap back into the game to prevent this. All in all the event is a great idea but horribly executed. If its going to be labeled as an end game event it needs to be fought like one. The point its at now its just a money sink for rebels and a meat grinder for cops. GravL, zdeat, KrazyKnight and 6 others like this Link to comment
KrazyKnight Posted April 13 Report Share Posted April 13 (edited) Why not add the APD token to this as well? Similar to how the oil rig works but at the national HQ? Edited April 13 by KrazyKnight Silver-Spy likes this Link to comment
Chris Peacock Posted April 13 Report Share Posted April 13 I think the issue is that civs are doing it in groups of 30+ any fed event would be a breeze. Maybe put a group cap on so that cops can stand a chance Stretch, Oskarr, Ruffian and 3 others like this Link to comment
Ebola Posted April 13 Report Share Posted April 13 6 hours ago, Fried Rice said: The idea of the national HQ is awesome and the perks you can gain from it are worth the reward however it is impossible to be fought on the cop side. Mobile HQ What's the point in pulling a Mobile HQ for it to be vested 2 minutes into the fight. Change the mobile for National HQ only to be in god mode. Almost every National done people hop around in channels begging for cops to log on just to be destroyed. There's no incentive for cops to log other than a promised payout from admins or an MK1 due to it being impossible to push a 30-50 man group. Eventually cops will stop logging on for the civ's and it will only be done when that perfect number of cops are online. The Mobile HQ allows the cops a safe spawn close to the event and its taken away every time. You could also add in a NEW HQ close to the event which would allow cops to spawn without the worry of being blown up. Other entry points From what I've seen there's tons of entry points to the compound but they are all locked? I'm not sure if its intended or not coded properly but its near impossible to push. Its supposed to be the TOP TIER END OF GAME EVENT that the cops will never win or get close to winning. How is that end game? A bank is more challenging to win then the National at this point. When a national is done its guaranteed you will get a token if you don't ego peak every cop you see. The roof is the main point of entry for cops but when there's 15 rebels on the roof and another 5 on construction how are you supposed to combat that? Especially now when people have tier 3 and tier 4 tokens that allow them weapons to rip through orcas like paper. Cop Morale This event is nothing but a middle finger to the cops. They never win and when the rebels win they get access to better equipment to give the cops a harder time. We want people to play the server and stick around and this event does the opposite. Any other event besides the prison there is a reward for the cops whether it be gold, bank notes, etc. I understand it spawns a truck with APD intel but once again 30-50 man group makes that hard to get ahold of. Even if the cops somehow win this event 80% of them will be lethaled and go to the HQ to save the 20% we did manage to capture. If an event like this is going to be done add a group cap back into the game to prevent this. All in all the event is a great idea but horribly executed. If its going to be labeled as an end game event it needs to be fought like one. The point its at now its just a money sink for rebels and a meat grinder for cops. boo hoo cops lose one event and its the end of the world. Nikolai's Compound, whether y'all win or lose you guys get the chance for obtaining a token regardless. "We want people to play the server and stick around and this event does the opposite." False. It's actually the opposite effect. More civs will grind to obtain a token that they know they have a good chance to win. 21 minutes ago, Chris Peacock said: I think the issue is that civs are doing it in groups of 30+ any fed event would be a breeze. Maybe put a group cap on so that cops can stand a chance This is accurate. Lars von Bismarck, Bob Danaloo, Big fart and 2 others like this Link to comment
Chris Peacock Posted April 13 Report Share Posted April 13 2 hours ago, Ebola said: boo hoo cops lose one event and its the end of the world. Nikolai's Compound, whether y'all win or lose you guys get the chance for obtaining a token regardless. Cops lose events all the time brother In fact I’d say the majority of time Fried Rice likes this Link to comment
Fried Rice Posted April 13 Author Report Share Posted April 13 3 hours ago, Ebola said: boo hoo cops lose one event and its the end of the world. Nikolai's Compound, whether y'all win or lose you guys get the chance for obtaining a token regardless. It has nothing to do with cops losing one event, this event will NEVER be won by cops with the current state its at. If its going to be labeled as an end game event it needs to be balanced and an actual fight. If that wont happen, allow the tokens to be bought without the need for an event so cops don't sit there for 40 minutes and waste their time. Link to comment
Silver-Spy Posted April 13 Report Share Posted April 13 (edited) Makes no sense. When we do a Nikolai cops just camp the boat and shoot us down when we tried to leave. In Nikolai we only get the money from the boat. If the cops camp the boat ( which is very common now ) its a Quote This event is nothing but a middle finger to the Civs. Why do cops get a mobile HQ and civilians have to spawn Therisa go to rebel gear up and then show up on orcas?. Cops can immediately gear up 1km out and be there quickly. In my opinion cops mobile HQ can be god moded but at the same time civilians should get a rebel outpost spawn in close to event similar to what we already have during gang fortress. Quote There's no incentive for cops to log other than a promised payout from admins or an MK1 due to it being impossible to push a 30-50 man group Atleast you have some incentive to play. When we do Nikolai compound we don't even get the money guaranteed. Oh wait we need to get good and some how kill cops wearing wetsuits camping the boat spawn AND kill cops in minigun boat. Don't forget the 90% chance of getting killed while driving the boat and the boat then circles around indefinitely in which case we are fucked because there is no way to get in or stop it. You try to shoot the engine it blows up, Try to block it with another boat you die and if you try to get in you get run overed. Cops literally get free loadouts if you get an MK spawned by an admin create you only pay 1k. While we civs have to get a 25+k loadout every time we die AND go through rebel and everything?. Why should cops get a closer spawn and free loadouts and we don't?. Only thing i agree on would be to let LTs either get paid for the ifrits/orcas they pull or get a higher payouts from the admins playing with cops. Quote When a national is done its guaranteed you will get a token You have no idea what your talking about. The vault door has a timer and closes very quickly. Last time me and @Alex. died and we couldn't get the token. Yesterday @Smurfygot lethal led at the last few minutes and almost didn't get the token. It was a rev on him that saved him. Meanwhile cops get ample amount of time in Nikolai to chill and get the token. Never had any cop complain he didn't get the token. There are more civilians that play than cops so its done much quickly and easily while literally all the server civilians are rushing to get the token. Quote How is that end game? A bank is more challenging to win then the National at this point If you find a bank to be challenging i don't know what to say. Quote The roof is the main point of entry for cops but when there's 15 rebels on the roof Civs can only land on roof AFTER we disable the roof or during the disablement. Land before it and hold it. Quote They never win and when the rebels win they get access to better equipment Again your getting free loadouts and we don't. Why should cop win this event. There is no way for cops to loose Nikolai. Rebels ALWAYS loose because you can always just breach the Nikolai compound again and get it. So if one event is cop sided (Nikolai compound) then one event should be civ sided ( APD national ) Quote I understand it spawns a truck with APD intel Brother... intel sells for max of 3.2mill in total. Imagine dividing that to a group of 20 people. Its peanuts, while cops get guaranteed payout of 250k ( last time i played cop side ). Our gear is 25k+ Quote All in all the event is a great idea but horribly executed. If its going to be labeled as an end game event it needs to be fought like one. The point its at now its just a money sink for rebels and a meat grinder for cops. I agree. We tried to make a deal that we will do a Nikolai Compound so cops get their prestige and then you guys have to stick around so we could do a APD National. Its a win win in my opinion. TLDR: - If your gonna make Mobile HQ god moded then spawn a rebel camp similar to what spawns during gang fortress near APD National. So both sides can gear up and come back. - Cops should loose in Nikolai compound if they fail to secure in X amount of time The APD National is suppose to be a civ victory while Nikolai is suppose to be cop sided. Edited April 13 by Silver-Spy keNNzo, Lars von Bismarck and Crossfade like this Link to comment
Fried Rice Posted April 13 Author Report Share Posted April 13 Just now, Silver-Spy said: Why do cops get a mobile HQ and civilians have to spawn Therisa go to rebel gear up and then show up on orcas?. Cops can immediately gear up 1km out and be there quickly. In my opinion cops mobile HQ can be god moded but at the same time civilians should get a rebel outpost spawn in close to event similar to what we already have during gang fortress. Because we push the event and you guys are in a position to hold it? 1 minute ago, Silver-Spy said: You have no idea what your talking about. The vault door has a timer and closes very quickly. Last time me and Alex ( Couldn't tag him) died and we couldn't get the token. Yesterday @Smurfygot lethal led at the last few minutes and almost didn't get the token. It was a rev on him that saved him. Meanwhile cops get ample amount of time in Nikolai to chill and get the token. Never had any cop complain he didn't get the token. There are more civilians that play than cops so its done much quickly and easily while literally all the server civilians are rushing to get the token. You left the part out where I said if you dont ego peak a cop you get the token. 2 minutes ago, Silver-Spy said: If you find a bank to be challenging i don't know what to say. A bank is more challenging to fight, you should know this seeing as FSA loses half of them. 3 minutes ago, Silver-Spy said: Civs can only land on roof AFTER we disable the roof or during the disablement. Land before it and hold it. Again left out where I said multiple people sitting on construction... 3 minutes ago, Silver-Spy said: Again your getting free loadouts and we don't. Why should cop win this event. There is no way for cops to loose Nikolai. Rebels ALWAYS loose because you can always just breach the Nikolai compound again and get it. So if one event is cop sided (Nikolai compound) then one event should be civ sided ( APD national ) My kits are 21k/// Link to comment
ł S4M ł Posted April 13 Report Share Posted April 13 I agree with you somewhat, it was 32 of us and only 17 cops, you are funnelled into one entrance if you're in ground vehicles but I need to point out the lack of coordination from the cops this most recent event. For example we had 4 people on West windmill rocks, cops come and kill & disarm them, they then proceed to snipe 500m out with MK's whilst you hot drop ATM 3 times, they are useless at this point but still do it. You guys did 1 attempt at getting construction, if you gained construction control and helped secure the orca landing top ATM it would have been a lot harder for us but they kept sniping the entire fight. After it was over, the cops made no attempt to follow the flat bed with air support, you had no idea where it was or anything. Overall yes, its a very hard push for cops especially when heavily outnumbered but the coordination from you guys was non existent. Blowing up mobile HQ is aids but needed especially when we have to gear up 5km away, get camped by degens and bounty hunters. Suggestions: if they added a green zone mobile rebel 3k away that would be nice? limit the amount of rebels that can take part? make the token only accessible for people who were initially there when the drilling began (stops late comers)? The token is the main goal for most so maybe put the token in the flat bed? make it so you have to hand it in somewhere else, a token ticket that is lost on death (no cost until you hand it in)? Link to comment
shawn Posted April 13 Report Share Posted April 13 just delete it Silver-Spy and ł S4M ł like this Link to comment
Alex. Posted April 13 Report Share Posted April 13 2 hours ago, Silver-Spy said: Last time me and @Alex. died and we couldn't get the token. I agree that the vault being open for only 5 minutes is to small of a time frame for every rebel at the event to buy a token with how chaotic it can get at times BUT i also agree with Chow on this one. I've never fought a national on the cop side but i can imagine pushing an event that always has at least 25+ geared rebels holding defense positions is no fun for the cops especially when there's nothing for them to gain from the event except like Chow mentioned admins giving them money to stay and attend it. If this event is supposed to be end game then why does it require less cops to start it then the evidence, in my opinion they should increase the amount of cops needed for it to start the event and give the cops something if they actually somehow manage to stop the event. Fried Rice likes this Link to comment
Oskarr Posted April 13 Report Share Posted April 13 This big of a group should not be a thing, any event would be almost impossible to win for cops with that big of a group Dont balance events around 35+ man grps, any normal gang/grp that tries to do it wont be able to Also the tokens should be awarded to the gangs that can actually manage to complete the whole robbery not just anyone who manages to type in the password for the grp, the rewards are big and should not just be handed out like this This server is basically just one massive gang right now and its awful Fried Rice, ł S4M ł and Chris Peacock like this Link to comment
CoIt Posted April 13 Report Share Posted April 13 (edited) 47 minutes ago, Oskarr said: This big of a group should not be a thing, any event would be almost impossible to win for cops with that big of a group Dont balance events around 35+ man grps, any normal gang/grp that tries to do it wont be able to Also the tokens should be awarded to the gangs that can actually manage to complete the whole robbery not just anyone who manages to type in the password for the grp, the rewards are big and should not just be handed out like this This server is basically just one massive gang right now and its awful Well I mean, its a 13 year old game with a niche community. If their was better incentives for more civ on civ fights, then people wouldn't group together to fight cops since it's practically the only action you'll have on the server. You also need 11 cops on to open the prestige vault, which is quite a lot of cops for people who don't group up. What's the average gang size besides WS, Zen, Swift, Crimson, etc. Like 3-5 people. You have to fight for almost an hour during this event, it's not as easy as cops make it out to be. What if you got lethaled? It takes an atrocious amount of time to get back into the fight whereas cops can come back into the action every 3-4 mins. Edited April 13 by CoIt Silver-Spy likes this Link to comment
Oskarr Posted April 13 Report Share Posted April 13 (edited) 1 hour ago, CoIt said: Well I mean, its a 13 year old game with a niche community. If their was better incentives for more civ on civ fights, then people wouldn't group together to fight cops since it's practically the only action you'll have on the server. You also need 11 cops on to open the prestige vault, which is quite a lot of cops for people who don't group up. What's the average gang size besides WS, Zen, Swift, Crimson, etc. Like 3-5 people. You have to fight for almost an hour during this event, it's not as easy as cops make it out to be. What if you got lethaled? It takes an atrocious amount of time to get back into the fight whereas cops can come back into the action every 3-4 mins. The event is not supposed to be easy hence the rewards, grps of 3-5 people have nothing to do with it and if they want to they should join or form a gang but whats the point of that when they can just join the ''server gang'' 11 cops would not be an issue for a decent gang if cops didnt pull 11 ifrits for 11 cops, these should be stacked and limited (maybe different for every event) or just use a hatchback if u want to push solo. these massive groups are here cause cops complain that events are too hard so they get stuff to help them fight (ifrits,mk1,money etc) and in return civs struggle to win so they form these massive groups to counter and now cops want even more change in their favour, why not limit both and try to balance it that way instead of increasing everything. Reduce the time it takes to rob, reduce the amount of armor cops can have reduce the amount of people there can be in a grp increase the amount of time it takes cops to return. If u get lethaled ur team should revive and if u cannot be revived u made a misstake, that is not the cops fault i also think this mass group has zero cordination which is why it is not as easy as the cops make it sound but if a gang was formed with actual comms and cordination this event would probably not be an issue at all if anything i think cops would need a slight nerf Edited April 13 by Oskarr Fried Rice, Batcan and Chris Peacock like this Link to comment
Chris Peacock Posted April 13 Report Share Posted April 13 (edited) Everything Oskarr is saying is correct. We have many new gen players thinking that cops are op and civs need to win more and shit but in reality this event is supposed to be the last event you do in progression. It is not supposed to be easy and should not have nearly as high a success rate as it does. Limiting a group cap is the only way I see fixing this because there is no reason for the server not to Zerg the event as everyone can get the token if completed Edited April 13 by Chris Peacock Oskarr, Fried Rice, zdeat and 1 other like this Link to comment
Chris Peacock Posted April 14 Report Share Posted April 14 3 hours ago, Knight05 said: Cops are OP, event is fine. You just contradicted yourself. If cops are OP how has this event not been stopped 1 time Fried Rice likes this Link to comment
Batcan Posted April 14 Report Share Posted April 14 On 4/12/2024 at 8:16 PM, Fried Rice said: The idea of the national HQ is awesome and the perks you can gain from it are worth the reward however it is impossible to be fought on the cop side. Mobile HQ What's the point in pulling a Mobile HQ for it to be vested 2 minutes into the fight. Change the mobile for National HQ only to be in god mode. Almost every National done people hop around in channels begging for cops to log on just to be destroyed. There's no incentive for cops to log other than a promised payout from admins or an MK1 due to it being impossible to push a 30-50 man group. Eventually cops will stop logging on for the civ's and it will only be done when that perfect number of cops are online. The Mobile HQ allows the cops a safe spawn close to the event and its taken away every time. You could also add in a NEW HQ close to the event which would allow cops to spawn without the worry of being blown up. Other entry points From what I've seen there's tons of entry points to the compound but they are all locked? I'm not sure if its intended or not coded properly but its near impossible to push. Its supposed to be the TOP TIER END OF GAME EVENT that the cops will never win or get close to winning. How is that end game? A bank is more challenging to win then the National at this point. When a national is done its guaranteed you will get a token if you don't ego peak every cop you see. The roof is the main point of entry for cops but when there's 15 rebels on the roof and another 5 on construction how are you supposed to combat that? Especially now when people have tier 3 and tier 4 tokens that allow them weapons to rip through orcas like paper. Cop Morale This event is nothing but a middle finger to the cops. They never win and when the rebels win they get access to better equipment to give the cops a harder time. We want people to play the server and stick around and this event does the opposite. Any other event besides the prison there is a reward for the cops whether it be gold, bank notes, etc. I understand it spawns a truck with APD intel but once again 30-50 man group makes that hard to get ahold of. Even if the cops somehow win this event 80% of them will be lethaled and go to the HQ to save the 20% we did manage to capture. If an event like this is going to be done add a group cap back into the game to prevent this. All in all the event is a great idea but horribly executed. If its going to be labeled as an end game event it needs to be fought like one. The point its at now its just a money sink for rebels and a meat grinder for cops. But it is okay for the cops to mass pull ifrits and drop mk1s for a bunch of people at the fed which is 1km from Air HQ? In terms of the problems with mass grouping maybe the amount of tokens that can be bought per event should be limited instead of limiting the group cap. If you're spending 12 mil to get all these guns on top of spending the money to buy the guns then you deserve to shit on the cops. I don't think it is fair to balance the APD around stuff like this being added as it leaves cops just shitting on everyone that does not mass group and have millions to blow. Link to comment
Fitz Posted April 14 Report Share Posted April 14 We’re gonna try out a bunch of stuff about balancing this system, there is a better way to do it from the back end, front end, and for balance. In terms of the fight, I’ll explore godmoding mobile at this event, but I’m not adding rebel spawns or anything, at the beginning we were subsidizing parts and setting the groups up for me to be able to see how it was gonna work. We’re past that point, it’s just a fed event now. I’ll work with Hubs on the map to see if there are any changes we can make, and code wise to make it a better fight for both sides, it’s supposed to be hard, I think both events can be harder, and in the coming days I’m gonna push ways of trying to do that. Fried Rice and GravL like this Link to comment
Knight05 Posted April 14 Report Share Posted April 14 11 hours ago, Chris Peacock said: You just contradicted yourself. If cops are OP how has this event not been stopped 1 time Because numbers still win. The same way a pro player might kill like 7 Westside dudes solo but then die to an 8th player from sheer numbers. Link to comment
Crossfade Posted April 14 Report Share Posted April 14 i mean its whatever now, never gonna get enough cops on now to do it. ggz Link to comment
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