Cop Penalisation

[Legit]

I'm not suggesting strict RP rules forcing people to dive into a character. As it currently is, the more a civilian RP's the lower their ticket is expected;however the cop also has to RP back. 

Cops refusing to RP would parole/full ticket anyway, I see no problem in just always rewarding cops with the players bounty regardless of pardon/reduction. This could lead to officers being too "nice" to civilians. To counter this there could be a system that provides 'points' similar to prestige that could be used to buy vehicles or cashed out to money. These points would be earned based on how much money you make the government. (Higher Tickets/Prison) I know it's a bit silly but its all I could come up with. I believe there can be a middle ground where everybody wins. 

I'm not trying to transform Asylum into a Hardcore RP server, I just don't see the point in punishing civs while rewarding bad cops and penalizing good ones. 

Edited December 19, 2016 by Legit
Better Explanation

[Haych]

money hungry cop

[Midamaru]

I almost never get robocopped, it's mostly the situation you are in as a rebel which defines how a cop will likely process you.

Personally 10 out 10 times when i turn myself in i get a good share of RP and a reduced ticket, parole, pardon ect.

However when i am fighting cops at a random situation and they have to fight their asses of an luckily arrest me.

I know they will process me with less calm and focused RP, they want to get me in jail and feel victory.

 

A money hungry cop is basically a BH with restrictions, if you are treated like shit by a cop just live with it. There's no magical button that will make people not use cop for money aslong as it's profitable. You can only change the situations you find yourself in, and how you behave.

If you make RP profitable, you will have people who will just reach the requirements for that higher payout and not care about any actual RP value.

Edited December 19, 2016 by Midamaru

[henky]

rp ?

[Midamaru]

Just now, henky said:

rp ?

Nothing said more RP than you destroying my orca yesterday! 

[henky]

17 minutes ago, Midamaru said:

Nothing said more RP than you destroying my orca yesterday! 

hahah you'r own fault. took me only 8 bullets.

[Soviet Toaster]

"[Trigger Warning]"

 

 

please

[Legit]

47 minutes ago, Midamaru said:

I almost never get robocopped, it's mostly the situation you are in as a rebel which defines how a cop will likely process you.

Personally 10 out 10 times when i turn myself in i get a good share of RP and a reduced ticket, parole, pardon ect.

However when i am fighting cops at a random situation and they have to fight their asses of an luckily arrest me.

I know they will process me with less calm and focused RP, they want to get me in jail and feel victory.

 

A money hungry cop is basically a BH with restrictions, if you are treated like shit by a cop just live with it. There's no magical button that will make people not use cop for money aslong as it's profitable. You can only change the situations you find yourself in, and how you behave.

If you make RP profitable, you will have people who will just reach the requirements for that higher payout and not care about any actual RP value.

You must get very lucky then, when turning myself in I hardly try to RP anymore, I just accept parole and go. I couldn't tell you how many times my entire RP story has been shut down for reasons similar to, "I can't lower your ticket any lower then 50% because you need a punishment". 

I thought I implied that not every cop robocops, and not every robocop gives full tickets. Plenty of cops know what ticket they will give before your RP story even starts. Rebels as it is will RP just for the reduced ticket then cuss you out and run away; If rebels get rewarded for RP cops should too. There will always be bad apples abusing the system but I know a lot of cops that would actually invest more time into RP if they weren't penalized for it.

 

@Soviet Toaster Sorry my trigger warning triggered you. 

Edited December 19, 2016 by Legit

[Windmere]

It's pretty much the eternal conflict.  Fixes to the problem are constantly discussed amongst the Captains, trust me, but roleplay is too largely open to interpretation.  Nothing will be able to end robo-copping without making strict rules that won't be put into place because Asylum is really popular for their lax rules regarding roleplay.  We aren't a community like CG.  While it makes Asylum the most popular Altis Life community in all of Arma 3, there are drawbacks to having lax roleplay rules, and it's just something we need to deal with, everyone who consistently plays civilians feels your pain though.

Edited December 19, 2016 by Windmere

[Boris]

Have a scroll wheel option on someone called "Pardon", which just gives them a pardon and gives you the full price of their ticket.

Bingo! 

[Legit]

3 minutes ago, Windmere said:

It's pretty much the eternal conflict.  Fixes to the problem are constantly discussed amongst the Captains, trust me, but roleplay is too largely open to interpretation.  Nothing will be able to end robo-copping without making strict rules that won't be put into place because Asylum is really popular for their lax rules regarding roleplay.  We aren't a community like CG.  While it makes Asylum the most popular Altis Life community in all of Arma 3, there are drawbacks to having lax roleplay rules, and it's just something we need to deal with, everyone who consistently plays civilians feels your pain though.

I'm not suggesting strict RP rules forcing people to dive into a character. As it currently is, the more a civilian RP's the lower their ticket is expected;however the cop also has to RP back. 

Cops refusing to RP would parole/full ticket anyway, I see no problem in just always rewarding cops with the players bounty, regardless of pardon/reduction. This could lead to officers being too "nice" to civilians. To counter this there could be a system that provides 'points' similar to prestige that could be used to buy vehicles or cashed out to money. These points would be earned based on how much money you make the government. (Higher Tickets/Prison) I know it's a bit silly but its all I could come up with. I believe there can be a middle ground where everybody wins. 

I'm not sure if this is possible. @bamf  

I'm not trying to transform Asylum into a Hardcore RP server, I just don't see the point in punishing civs while rewarding bad cops. 

[Windmere]

Just now, Legit said:

I'm not suggesting strict RP rules forcing people to dive into a character. As it currently is, the more a civilian RP's the lower their ticket is expected;however the cop also has to RP back. 

Cops refusing to RP would parole/full ticket anyway, I see no problem in just always rewarding cops with the players bounty, regardless of pardon/reduction. This could lead to officers being too "nice" to civilians. To counter this there could be a system that provides 'points' similar to prestige that could be used to buy vehicles or cashed out to money. These points would be earned based on how much money you make the government. (Higher Tickets/Prison) I know it's a bit silly but its all I could come up with. I believe there can be a middle ground where everybody wins. 

I'm not sure if this is possible. @bamf  

I'm not trying to transform Asylum into a Hardcore RP server, I just don't see the point in punishing civs while rewarding bad cops. 

Makes sense, and I agree, might've misunderstood your OP.

[.Sean]

P2 is the worst IMO, literally should of filed at least 9 IA reports because I got robocopped WHEN I TURNED MYSELF IN by a cadet because I told him he's an idiot for instantly denying my request for a higher up without asking. I called him an idiot refused to read the rest of my charges and gave me 700k ticket. Peace Love P2, full of retards who don't know the guidebook

[eleec]

8 minutes ago, House. said:

P2 is the worst IMO, literally should of filed at least 9 IA reports because I got robocopped WHEN I TURNED MYSELF IN by a cadet because I told him he's an idiot for instantly denying my request for a higher up without asking. I called him an idiot refused to read the rest of my charges and gave me 700k ticket. Peace Love P2, full of retards who don't know the guidebook

Look buddy there is good and bad cops.

If you dont make an IA report noone is gettinh punished and they can keep doin what they do

[henky]

13 minutes ago, House. said:

P2 is the worst IMO, literally should of filed at least 9 IA reports because I got robocopped WHEN I TURNED MYSELF IN by a cadet because I told him he's an idiot for instantly denying my request for a higher up without asking. I called him an idiot refused to read the rest of my charges and gave me 700k ticket. Peace Love P2, full of retards who don't know the guidebook

wooow i feel offended

[.Sean]

3 minutes ago, henky said:

wooow i feel offended

I'll edit my statement to say most P2 cops  

[Dredd]

There's literally a couple of handfuls of people who even want to RP.  Everyone else's attitude is simply "f* you, eat sh*t, you restrained me so you're a f*n robocop, I'll never pay my ticket you douchebag, hurry the f* up idiot".

Have any of you considered that those people are the ones causing the problems with RP?

A few hours of that and when you run into the RARE rebel that actually DESIRES to RP that some struggle to be in the mood for some pirate ship story without any knowledge in the <insert random situation that makes no sense whatsoever just so long as it lasts more than 5 minutes>.

There are people really good at RP, and it's those situations that I play cop for.  But they are rare.

[Johnny]

2 hours ago, House. said:

P2 is the worst IMO, literally should of filed at least 9 IA reports because I got robocopped WHEN I TURNED MYSELF IN by a cadet because I told him he's an idiot for instantly denying my request for a higher up without asking. I called him an idiot refused to read the rest of my charges and gave me 700k ticket. Peace Love P2, full of retards who don't know the guidebook

amen

[.Sean]

10 minutes ago, eleec said:

Look buddy there is good and bad cops.

If you dont make an IA report noone is gettinh punished and they can keep doin what they do

"Sorry script failure" -P2 After 1 bank wipe with 2 rebels 9 cops

Edited December 19, 2016 by House.
P2 gives me autism

[Legit]

7 minutes ago, Dredd said:

There's literally a couple of handfuls of people who even want to RP.  Everyone else's attitude is simply "f* you, eat sh*t, you restrained me so you're a f*n robocop, I'll never pay my ticket you douchebag, hurry the f* up idiot".

Have any of you considered that those people are the ones causing the problems with RP?

A few hours of that and when you run into the RARE rebel that actually DESIRES to RP that some struggle to be in the mood for some pirate ship story without any knowledge in the <insert random situation that makes no sense whatsoever just so long as it lasts more than 5 minutes>.

There are people really good at RP, and it's those situations that I play cop for.  But they are rare.

Rebels have mostly come to the assumption that trying to RP is a waste of time.  I'm pretty sure I heard of a mysterious sailor of that sorts, might his name be Davy Bones?  

[HotWings]

Just now, Legit said:

Rebels have mostly come to the assumption that trying to RP is a waste of time.  I'm pretty sure I heard of a mysterious sailor of that sorts, might his name be Davy Bones?  

Rebels should not use "self defense" and "my kid has cancer" story for everything.  I got 3 separate people at drug fields the other day, they all said the same "my kid has cancer and I need money" story.  If rebels constantly use the same excuse then people are not going to take their RP serious.  Ive seen very little effort, and its was getting worse and worse, which is one of the main reasons I just stepped down and stop playing the last 3 months.  There is more "im reporting you" then their is actually attempts at RP.

[Silver-Spy]

Well i never found myself in that position but i know what your talking about mate.You try really hard to RP and then a cop just decides nah i dont believe your story.In almost all meetings Seniors always encourage us to RP and try to avoid Robo-Copping[If thats even a word].

I would recommend maybe support channel or a talk with higher up when a officer refuses to RP or lacks RP in him as a APD officer.The whole point of Arma Life is to RP and if they cant RP as cop they should at least be warned to RP better next time.

[.Sean]

Just now, HotWings said:

Rebels should not use "self defense" and "my kid has cancer" story for everything.  I got 3 separate people at drug fields the other day, they all said the same "my kid has cancer and I need money" story.  If rebels constantly use the same excuse then people are not going to take their RP serious.  Ive seen very little effort, and its was getting worse and worse, which is one of the main reasons I just stepped down and stop playing the last 3 months.  There is more "im reporting you" then their is actually attempts at RP.

I'm reporting you

[Smee]

There should be equalization, if one civilian if putting there heart and soul into trying some RP, then a cop should then equalize back and try at least give him or her some justice. 

[Legit]

Just now, HotWings said:

Rebels should not use "self defense" and "my kid has cancer" story for everything.  I got 3 separate people at drug fields the other day, they all said the same "my kid has cancer and I need money" story.  If rebels constantly use the same excuse then people are not going to take their RP serious.  Ive seen very little effort, and its was getting worse and worse, which is one of the main reasons I just stepped down and stop playing the last 3 months.  There is more "im reporting you" then their is actually attempts at RP.

I ran into a cop who blatantly admitted to me he would rather give me parole so he can actually make money as I had been talking with him for the past 15 minutes. People that are willing to RP creative stories are indeed rare but should not have to force cops to sit and listen to you just for a pardon.

I almost feel bad while doing it because I know I'm saving money while the cops loosing it. I imagine if cop made no money it would be a lot less popular. In my eyes the idea behind cop is to allow players who are interested in RP to do so while profiting allowing rebels to save money and spend it on gear for banks/feds etc. The way it is setup now rewards quickly burning through as many bounties as you can for maximum payout. Even the best rebel RPers do it for the money I don't understand why its so wrong to expect cops get money for their time and effort too. 

[HotWings]

Just now, Smee said:

There should be equalization, if one civilian if putting there heart and soul into trying some RP, then a cop should then equalize back and try at least give him or her some justice. 

I always tried to reduce the ticket based on time RPing, regardless of if it was good or not to be honest (ie you talk to me for 10 minutes and your jail time would be 15 Ill reduce to a 2-3k ticket).  As long as you're putting in effort you should be rewarded.  If all i got was its self defense then I would give a minimal discount for the minimal amount of time spent telling a story. If you went into a big story talking about what happen, how things went down, why you killed them and so on I would def give a bigger discount.  I prefer to keep people playing as opposed to going to jail.  That said, if you're in a huge fight with a group, the odds of a huge discount go down based on the circumstances of the situation.  It takes alot more effort to get out of stuff like that, but its certainly not impossible. 

I certainly understand the frustrations as some cops are honestly assholes and just want to make sure they get all the money they can.  Ive run into them myself, its really shitty.  

[Norwegianviking]

45 minutes ago, House. said:

P2 is the worst IMO, literally should of filed at least 9 IA reports because I got robocopped WHEN I TURNED MYSELF IN by a cadet because I told him he's an idiot for instantly denying my request for a higher up without asking. I called him an idiot refused to read the rest of my charges and gave me 700k ticket. Peace Love P2, full of retards who don't know the guidebook

 

[Nightfury]

fuck the police

[HotWings]

1 minute ago, Legit said:

I ran into a cop who blatantly admitted to me he would rather give me parole so he can actually make money as I had been talking with him for the past 15 minutes. People that are willing to RP creative stories are indeed rare but should not have to force cops to sit and listen to you just for a pardon.

I almost feel bad while doing it because I know I'm saving money while the cops loosing it. I imagine if cop made no money it would be a lot less popular. In my eyes the idea behind cop is to allow players who are interested in RP to do so while profiting allowing rebels to save money and spend it on gear for banks/feds etc. The way it is setup now rewards quickly burning through as many bounties as you can for maximum payout. Even the best rebel RPers do it for the money I don't understand why its so wrong to expect cops get money for their time and effort too. 

I suggested very minimal payout for bounties, slightly higher paychecks, and free gear (but you had to go to the vendor and rebuy it every time in lue of a re-gear button).  I dont think its fair that you can make bank on cop with minimal effort.  

[The Monopoly Man]

Due to asylum and its minimal roleplay, if RP standards were increased, it would have to be increased for all of Asylum, not just the APD. This would drive off many players as quite alot are here for the "run and gun" feel of asylum. Now as we know this isn't happening any time soon, we can think of ways to increase cop RP. I have always believed that rewarding for good RP is much more effective than punishing for the bad. 

As legit said, the point system is a neat idea, it would encourage more roleplay throughout the APD.

However, it still won't fix the cops with bad roleplay inside of the APD.

This will never change unless the Application requirements to join the APD are heavily increased.

[.Sean]

31 minutes ago, Norwegianviking said:

Most as I corrected myself  

[Norwegianviking]

9 minutes ago, House. said:

Most as I corrected myself  

Am i one of them?

[.Sean]

Just now, Norwegianviking said:

Am i one of them?

Last time u processed me I was in vpr xddd

[eleec]

1 hour ago, House. said:

"Sorry script failure" -P2 After 1 bank wipe with 2 rebels 9 cops

Just go ahead and report it anyway.

There might be one time a failure, twice, hell even a 3rd time. 

But those reports will stack up and will look suspicious

[Smee]

9 minutes ago, Norwegianviking said:

Am i one of them?

Yes 

[Phil.]

If you want the decision based off of RP, then pay the cop the same amount no matter if they pardon, parole or ticket someone. If they get the same amount of money either way, the decision will be completely off of the experience and RP. Done.

[HotWings]

44 minutes ago, Phil. said:

If you want the decision based off of RP, then pay the cop the same amount no matter if they pardon, parole or ticket someone. If they get the same amount of money either way, the decision will be completely off of the experience and RP. Done.

You do that payout will need to be 10% of the bounty.

[Olivia]

There used to be no internal affairs disciplinary action we could use against "fail RP" or "robocopping."  So no, the problem isn't completely fixed however I think we're better off now than we used to be because LT's have a course of action we can take if an officer has exceptionally poor RP or completely fails at it.  It doesn't really raise the bar for everyone's everyday, run-of-the-mill RP however hopefully we'll see less of the extremely bad instances of it.

I agree with @The Monopoly Man that encouraging something is better than punishing for a lack of it, but at least we have the tools and abilities to punish the cops that are playing the role for the wrong reason.  And yes, the light RP requirements are part of what makes Asylum so appealing.

@House. anyone who does not at least try to get you a higher up when you ask for one can and will be punished.  Please report any individuals that you see doing this.  We can't do anything about bad cops unless we see the evidence and they rarely do it when the higher ups are online.  Even if no action comes of it, when promotion time comes around we can see how they act when we're not around.

Edited December 19, 2016 by Olivia

[.Sean]

1 hour ago, Norwegianviking said:

I'm a gay robocop xd

[.Sean]

Just now, Olivia said:

@House. anyone who does not at least try to get you a higher up when you ask for one can and will be punished.  Please report any individuals that you see doing this.  We can't do anything about bad cops unless we see the evidence and they rarely do it when the higher ups are online.  Even if no action comes of it, when promotion time comes around we can see how they act when we're not around.

I have reported dw and just bc you gave me advice doesn't mean I'm NOT going to run you over wherever I see you xd