The Great Fridge vs. Auto Paying Cartels Poll

[Steve]

So I'd say it's fair to take a good honest look at the benefits and disadvantages of both. Before you read this understand it's just my opinion, and I would like to see what the community thinks as a whole. Please keep the thread clean, I don't wanna see it locked for stupid shit. I don't want your forum likes, I just want this thread to be genuinely considered for what it is, the communities opinion. That being said please state yours. @bamf

Advantages of the fridge:

1. The fridge makes more money due to it auto generating.
2. It gives lower ranking gang members direct access to a source of income that would otherwise go into the gang bank
3. Occasionally someone will roll up to rebel with virtually free dirty money on them to take.

Disadvantages of the fridge:

1. Gangs seem to no longer fight for the cap of the cartel to constantly hold and put their name on the map, they fight for the money or only for the sake of fighting.
2. People become rats, camping the cartel and rebel, as opposed to actually capping it and getting involved in that part of rebel life.
3. Newer gangs tend to only cap your cartels when you are offline, resulting in them never, or very rarely actually fighting the cartel.
4. Gang members can rat the cartel money, resulting in not all of it going into gang bank. It's not easy to prevent, and it's relatively hard to find out who's doing it when no one else is on. In turn members start to play for them selves and not the gang.
5. you can get an idea if people are in the middle of running drugs by simply looking at the drug cartel go up if you check it regularly.

Advantages to the auto paying Cartel:

1. Gang's don't have to pickup from drug literally every 20 or 30 minutes when they could be doing a fed, bank, or a prison.
2. constantly holding the cartel becomes astronomically more important, in the eyes of a newer gang you never know what amount of money you could be missing out on. With the fridge, the amount you could not obtain by leaving the cartel alone is finite, further discouraging them from capping the cartel if there is very little in the fridge.
3. Less rats and more gangs that fight cartels would start to form.

Disadvantages of auto paying cartels:

1. You would make less money with out the dirty money auto generating within the fridge. (This is a good and a bad thing I'll restate it and why at the bottom.)
2. lower ranking gang members can no longer comp them selves.
3. Players who are literally brand new to arma/asylum might not be interested in capping cartels if they don't understand or see the monetary gain involved with it.

You would make less money with out the dirty money auto generating within the fridge. So this is in my opinion a good and a bad thing because you would make less money overall with out dirty money auto generating, on the other hand you would be given the incentive to protect your drug runners. That is for the simple reason that drug runners make you money, if you protect them you make more. It would require more work on the rebel side, but would actually give them the ability to fight cops and people robbing your drug runners along the way. I doubt we would see any community meth runs like we use to because of the dynamic market, but it would be nice to see some newer players get somewhere with a little help from the rebel community.

Edited January 15, 2018 by Steve

[uc.]

Community manager steve has spoken, rise!

[skrood]

CM CM CM CM CM CM

[skrood]

I mean u said some great ideas but I don`t think devs care..

[Yung Spacegod.]

It's 2018 aslyum Steve hit your vape and dab on these haters

[Maaqs]

1 hour ago, Steve said:

1. People become rats, camping the cartel and rebel, as opposed to actually capping it and getting involved in that part of rebel life.

 

This 1000%. You're far more likely to get a rat at rebel than at the cartel nowadays.

[bamf]

2 hours ago, Steve said:

So I'd say it's fair to take a good honest look at the benefits and disadvantages of both. Before you read this understand it's just my opinion, and I would like to see what the community thinks as a whole. Please keep the thread clean, I don't wanna see it locked for stupid shit. I don't want your forum likes, I just want this thread to be genuinely considered for what it is, the communities opinion. That being said please state yours. @bamf

Advantages of the fridge:

1. The fridge makes more money due to it auto generating.
2. It gives lower ranking gang members direct access to a source of income that would otherwise go into the gang bank
3. Occasionally someone will roll up to rebel with virtually free dirty money on them to take.

Disadvantages of the fridge:

1. Gangs seem to no longer fight for the cap of the cartel to constantly hold and put their name on the map, they fight for the money or only for the sake of fighting.
2. People become rats, camping the cartel and rebel, as opposed to actually capping it and getting involved in that part of rebel life.
3. Newer gangs tend to only cap your cartels when you are offline, resulting in them never, or very rarely actually fighting the cartel.
4. Gang members can rat the cartel money, resulting in not all of it going into gang bank. It's not easy to prevent, and it's relatively hard to find out who's doing it when no one else is on. In turn members start to play for them selves and not the gang.
5. you can get an idea if people are in the middle of running drugs by simply looking at the drug cartel go up if you check it regularly.

Advantages to the auto paying Cartel:

1. Gang's don't have to pickup from drug literally every 20 or 30 minutes when they could be doing a fed, bank, or a prison.
2. constantly holding the cartel becomes astronomically more important, in the eyes of a newer gang you never know what amount of money you could be missing out on. With the fridge, the amount you could not obtain by leaving the cartel alone is finite, further discouraging them from capping the cartel if there is very little in the fridge.
3. Less rats and more gangs that fight cartels would start to form.

Disadvantages of auto paying cartels:

1. You would make less money with out the dirty money auto generating within the fridge. (This is a good and a bad thing I'll restate it and why at the bottom.)
2. lower ranking gang members can no longer comp them selves.
3. Players who are literally brand new to arma/asylum might not be interested in capping cartels if they don't understand or see the monetary gain involved with it.

You would make less money with out the dirty money auto generating within the fridge. So this is in my opinion a good and a bad thing because you would make less money overall with out dirty money auto generating, on the other hand you would be given the incentive to protect your drug runners. That is for the simple reason that drug runners make you money, if you protect them you make more. It would require more work on the rebel side, but would actually give them the ability to fight cops and people robbing your drug runners along the way. I doubt we would see any community meth runs like we use to because of the dynamic market, but it would be nice to see some newer players get somewhere with a little help from the rebel community.

OK, so let's take a look at this from my side of the fence.  As a preface, since many of you probably don't know, I was part of the gang scene back in the day (no, I wasn't always a cop on the servers) - so I do have an appreciation for your arguments (whether you think I do or not).  I'll go through point by point on your comments and then add my own...  

@Steve's points:

Advantages of the fridge:  

1. It absolutely makes more money for your gang in the current methodology - provided you actually clear out the fridge.  
2. This is a double edged sword of sorts.  Back in Innovative we had a member who at night would "watch the cartels".  What he was really doing was cleaning out the gang bank (he was rank 2), albeit he was doing it slowly.  So even though the money was going directly into the gang bank, he still had access to this money.  Therefore, I call this one a wash in my opinion.  
3. Agreed.  Who doesn't love robbing the solo guy who thinks he's safe at rebel right?

Disadvantages of the fridge:  

1. Having your "name on the map" is not a bad thing.  Also, that fridge is constantly generating money.  If someone taps the cap (fridge or not), you stop generating income into your bank account.  
2. I think having rats at rebel increases the sense that rebel isn't safe, but that's just me.  
3. This happens regardless of system we use.  If the gang controlling a cartel isn't online, then they are not really controlling the cartel are they?
4. See point 2 from above.  Members of sufficient rank are doing this now anyway, we are just not telling you about it...
5. You see a disadvantage, I see the need to try to protect those people because I know they are actively on a run - and I make more money if they make money.  

Advantages of auto paying cartels:  

1. Gangs shouldn't have to pickup the money every 20-30 minutes now.  I've let the money roll over between play sessions (which is a pretty big buff to the cartel fridge honestly), so even at server reset you no longer have to be rushing to get this done before the server restarts.  
2. Holding the cartel is important either way.  You have to hold it to make money.  With the auto paying cartel though, if you know no one is running drugs then there is no incentive for you to fight for that cap.  With the fridge money pours in either way.  
3. I'll explain why I feel like your logic for this is flawed down below.  

Disadvantages of the auto paying cartels:

1. True.  You will always have less money making potential without us creating money for you.  You're basically getting a bonus for having your name on the map right now.  Also, the higher the player count, the higher that bonus is (did you know that?).
2. True.
3. True.  

OK, there's my thoughts on all of @Steve's thoughts.  Now with that being said, let's talk about why lots of these types of changes were made back in the day (well before I was a developer here, but while I was an admin/CM/etc).  

Back in April or so of 2015 (I think it was 2015) there was a meta on the server of 2 major gangs splitting the cartels and each holding 2.  There was a gentleman's agreement not to go after each other's cartels, and to help defend the other gang's cartels if they came under attack.  This lasted for a month or two on each server, and then the two dominate gangs on S1 decided to just merge and became Innovative.  Now a single gang on S1 held all 4 cartels virtually 24 hours a day.  Inevitably, there was some small period of the night where all the members would be offline (we had 40-50 overall members IIRC) so the window was small - but that was the only time someone would take the cartel from us.  I work at home, so each morning I'd drink coffee, check email, and afk cap all the cartels back for us (and I almost never got shot at).  This meta spread to the other servers.  S1 had Innovative, S2 had Bad Blood, etc. etc.

During this time, hardly anyone fought for control of the cartels.  Each member of Innovative got between 2 and 4 million per week in gang payouts because the money literally just flowed in with no end in sight.  Gangs got bigger and bigger, had "unlimited" money, and wreaked havoc on the server(s).  I'm not going to say it wasn't fun for us (because it was), but at some point we missed people actually wanting to fight for the cartels.  Anyone who was worth having would join our gang, so there was no real competition.  There were no fights to be had - except against the other large gang on every server - the APD.  

Gangs during this period absolutely ravaged the APD.  Better equipment, no fear of losing gear because defibs had been introduced (and you always outnumbered the APD so you always got a revive), and always seeming to have numbers on the cops.  We robbed and pillaged everyone who didn't buy a "meth pass" (another huge source of income for the gang allowing us to make money on people playing twice).  We even robbed people doing legal stuff and would let them live (and keep their truck) if they promised to start running drugs so we could make more money that way.  

It was the gang golden era.  No doubts about it.  But eventually we just got...  bored...  No fights except the APD, and we always beat them.  People would only troll cap part of the cartel to be jackasses, but we'd have to fly over and run up to the cartel only to have to sit there while it went back to 100% from 90.  

The devs noticed that no one was fighting for the cartels.  The whole point of the cartels was to bring fights to the server, and it wasn't doing that since everyone was holding hands and not actually fighting over them.  So an idea was born.  An idea of giving something to actually fight for at the cartel itself.  Enter the era of the fridge.  A decision was made to actually just "create" money to make it more attractive to fight for the fridge.  By this time we had dropped the group and gang hex limits, but that had not dissuaded the more organized large gangs from staying huge. 

The fridge system, however, did finally get smaller gangs to want to go and challenge for the cartels.  Part of this was that the larger gangs got frustrated that money wasn't just flowing straight into their gang banks.  The big gangs said "there's not enough money there to even be worth fighting for", yet dirty money became the #1 (or #2) money maker on the servers when you look at the logs ($32M in the last week).  But the smaller gangs could see there was money in controlling the cartels, so they actually went for them now.  People were actually using the fridge system, and they still do.  

That brings us to where we are today.  We've made a few concessions along the way to try to bring back the feel that some of you want.  We have slowly increased the group cap, we have tweaked the amounts of "created" money going into the cartels, and finally we have made the fridge not reset with the server (making fighting for the cartel at server startup something that is "worth doing").  The community goals system also has an increase to what the fridge can hold, giving veterans who may not have donated in years a reason to kick in for server costs occasionally. 

Now, with all of that being said...  I'm not opposed to ideas that try to keep the spirit of what we want intact.  We want you guys to fight.  Going back to the direct deposit method I really fear will just bring back "super gangs" and will not actually get you fights at the cartels.  It will at first, but that will end when people realize they can make more money by just grouping up and having no real rival on each server.  

Does it make sense what the devs are hoping to do here?  We want you to have a reason to fight, and not have a reason to hold hands and have free money super gangs.  We want you guys to have an incentive to go out and rob people (or is it protect them) who are running drugs.  We want you to have a reason to go and do the higher end content (fed, bank, prison break), but we don't want them to devolve into cop sport shoots.  

I'm open to ideas, but going back to the old days is not necessarily the panacea that some of you think it would be...  

Bamf

P.S.  Why are you guys still thinking that the market system prevents doing "community" runs of anything?  The high end drugs don't start taking a hit on price until 1500 are on the market.  How many HEMTTs is that again of a drug before you take even a single dollar hit???

[Ben Flint]

Just now, bamf said:

OK, so let's take a look at this from my side of the fence.  As a preface, since many of you probably don't know, I was part of the gang scene back in the day (no, I wasn't always a cop on the servers) - so I do have an appreciation for your arguments (whether you think I do or not).  I'll go through point by point on your comments and then add my own...  

@Steve's points:

Advantages of the fridge:  

1. It absolutely makes more money for your gang in the current methodology - provided you actually clear out the fridge.  
2. This is a double edged sword of sorts.  Back in Innovative we had a member who at night would "watch the cartels".  What he was really doing was cleaning out the gang bank (he was rank 2), albeit he was doing it slowly.  So even though the money was going directly into the gang bank, he still had access to this money.  Therefore, I call this one a wash in my opinion.  
3. Agreed.  Who doesn't love robbing the solo guy who thinks he's safe at rebel right?

Disadvantages of the fridge:  

1. Having your "name on the map" is not a bad thing.  Also, that fridge is constantly generating money.  If someone taps the cap (fridge or not), you stop generating income into your bank account.  
2. I think having rats at rebel increases the sense that rebel isn't safe, but that's just me.  
3. This happens regardless of system we use.  If the gang controlling a cartel isn't online, then they are not really controlling the cartel are they?
4. See point 2 from above.  Members of sufficient rank are doing this now anyway, we are just not telling you about it...
5. You see a disadvantage, I see the need to try to protect those people because I know they are actively on a run - and I make more money if they make money.  

Advantages of auto paying cartels:  

1. Gangs shouldn't have to pickup the money every 20-30 minutes now.  I've let the money roll over between play sessions (which is a pretty big buff to the cartel fridge honestly), so even at server reset you no longer have to be rushing to get this done before the server restarts.  
2. Holding the cartel is important either way.  You have to hold it to make money.  With the auto paying cartel though, if you know no one is running drugs then there is no incentive for you to fight for that cap.  With the fridge money pours in either way.  
3. I'll explain why I feel like your logic for this is flawed down below.  

Disadvantages of the auto paying cartels:

1. True.  You will always have less money making potential without us creating money for you.  You're basically getting a bonus for having your name on the map right now.  Also, the higher the player count, the higher that bonus is (did you know that?).
2. True.
3. True.  

OK, there's my thoughts on all of @Steve's thoughts.  Now with that being said, let's talk about why lots of these types of changes were made back in the day (well before I was a developer here, but while I was an admin/CM/etc).  

Back in April or so of 2015 (I think it was 2015) there was a meta on the server of 2 major gangs splitting the cartels and each holding 2.  There was a gentleman's agreement not to go after each other's cartels, and to help defend the other gang's cartels if they came under attack.  This lasted for a month or two on each server, and then the two dominate gangs on S1 decided to just merge and became Innovative.  Now a single gang on S1 held all 4 cartels virtually 24 hours a day.  Inevitably, there was some small period of the night where all the members would be offline (we had 40-50 overall members IIRC) so the window was small - but that was the only time someone would take the cartel from us.  I work at home, so each morning I'd drink coffee, check email, and afk cap all the cartels back for us (and I almost never got shot at).  This meta spread to the other servers.  S1 had Innovative, S2 had Bad Blood, etc. etc.

During this time, hardly anyone fought for control of the cartels.  Each member of Innovative got between 2 and 4 million per week in gang payouts because the money literally just flowed in with no end in sight.  Gangs got bigger and bigger, had "unlimited" money, and wreaked havoc on the server(s).  I'm not going to say it wasn't fun for us (because it was), but at some point we missed people actually wanting to fight for the cartels.  Anyone who was worth having would join our gang, so there was no real competition.  There were no fights to be had - except against the other large gang on every server - the APD.  

Gangs during this period absolutely ravaged the APD.  Better equipment, no fear of losing gear because defibs had been introduced (and you always outnumbered the APD so you always got a revive), and always seeming to have numbers on the cops.  We robbed and pillaged everyone who didn't buy a "meth pass" (another huge source of income for the gang allowing us to make money on people playing twice).  We even robbed people doing legal stuff and would let them live (and keep their truck) if they promised to start running drugs so we could make more money that way.  

It was the gang golden era.  No doubts about it.  But eventually we just got...  bored...  No fights except the APD, and we always beat them.  People would only troll cap part of the cartel to be jackasses, but we'd have to fly over and run up to the cartel only to have to sit there while it went back to 100% from 90.  

The devs noticed that no one was fighting for the cartels.  The whole point of the cartels was to bring fights to the server, and it wasn't doing that since everyone was holding hands and not actually fighting over them.  So an idea was born.  An idea of giving something to actually fight for at the cartel itself.  Enter the era of the fridge.  A decision was made to actually just "create" money to make it more attractive to fight for the fridge.  By this time we had dropped the group and gang hex limits, but that had not dissuaded the more organized large gangs from staying huge. 

The fridge system, however, did finally get smaller gangs to want to go and challenge for the cartels.  Part of this was that the larger gangs got frustrated that money wasn't just flowing straight into their gang banks.  The big gangs said "there's not enough money there to even be worth fighting for", yet dirty money became the #1 (or #2) money maker on the servers when you look at the logs ($32M in the last week).  But the smaller gangs could see there was money in controlling the cartels, so they actually went for them now.  People were actually using the fridge system, and they still do.  

That brings us to where we are today.  We've made a few concessions along the way to try to bring back the feel that some of you want.  We have slowly increased the group cap, we have tweaked the amounts of "created" money going into the cartels, and finally we have made the fridge not reset with the server (making fighting for the cartel at server startup something that is "worth doing").  The community goals system also has an increase to what the fridge can hold, giving veterans who may not have donated in years a reason to kick in for server costs occasionally. 

Now, with all of that being said...  I'm not opposed to ideas that try to keep the spirit of what we want intact.  We want you guys to fight.  Going back to the direct deposit method I really fear will just bring back "super gangs" and will not actually get you fights at the cartels.  It will at first, but that will end when people realize they can make more money by just grouping up and having no real rival on each server.  

Does it make sense what the devs are hoping to do here?  We want you to have a reason to fight, and not have a reason to hold hands and have free money super gangs.  We want you guys to have an incentive to go out and rob people (or is it protect them) who are running drugs.  We want you to have a reason to go and do the higher end content (fed, bank, prison break), but we don't want them to devolve into cop sport shoots.  

I'm open to ideas, but going back to the old days is not necessarily the panacea that some of you think it would be...  

Bamf

P.S.  Why are you guys still thinking that the market system prevents doing "community" runs of anything?  The high end drugs don't start taking a hit on price until 1500 are on the market.  How many HEMTTs is that again of a drug before you take even a single dollar hit???

I would just like to say thank you for replying on this thread, good or bad we all appreciate it. 

[bamf]

Just now, Azeh said:

If I'm not wrong - 8.2 runs (HEMTT + backpack). You can easily do 2 runs per restart.

My point is, that's a lot of HEMTTs that can do "community runs" - 16 people if you team up and share the HEMTTs.  Also, the market "sells off" it's inventory while the server is up - so the market pricing is probably a smaller factor than most people think.  

[Maaqs]

Just now, bamf said:

1.  

1.) For people in solo gangs (like I am right now) I'd rather just take Cartel A and throw the dirty money on the ground if it's only 20-30k because it's not worth getting roached at rebel for (granted I'm not hurting for money by any means). People would prefer to camp the fridge (outside the capture zone) or rebel and just wait for you.

2.) You're talking about "mega gangs" from 2 years ago, not gangs today. Couldn't tell you how many times I've heard (*Gang I'm in owns Drug and it becomes contested*) "How much is in Drug? Oh, that's all? We'll just take it back later." Once the cartel gets cleaned out and there's not a lot in there, people don't want to fight the cartel for the fight. This would be different with a fridge-less system.

3.) Group cap prevents "community drug runs." I remember when Envy would do em, and there would be 15 in a group. Every single person was hex'd and able to be in one group. While I was in DS, we tried doing several "Community Meth Run" with 2 separate groups, and it was awful every time. Also, server stability has been an issue for a while - I couldn't tell you the last time I actually pulled something bigger than a Qillin for anything.

4.) Would it be difficult to implement the fridge-less system and see how the servers go for 2-3/4 weeks? See if these "mega gangs" actually become a thing?

Tried condensing everything I wanted to say, your post was long but wanted to hit on the major points from my point of view as a solo gang'er atm.

Edited January 15, 2018 by Maaqs

[Crunchedd]

Just now, bamf said:

My point is, that's a lot of HEMTTs that can do "community runs" - 16 people if you team up and share the HEMTTs.  Also, the market "sells off" it's inventory while the server is up - so the market pricing is probably a smaller factor than most people think.  

your whole spiel is saying that ppl got bored of holding the cartels all day its litterally the same right now ppl afk at the cartels so that it never appears to be full and just mass the money.

You think holding hands isnt a thing right now? it is...

i think as a developer having powerful gangs with active people should be #1 on ur list cuz atm you just have mass numbers of gangs with very few people in each.

and fights are non existant

 

olympus has money flowing straight into gang banks and there are fights constantly because people want to make money for there gangs since sheds cost 30 million (3million asylum) and ifrits are expensive to comp for losses. 

 

[Hanzo/Dirty Scrubz]

I'm not a rebel but logically I think the argument of super gangs is a fallacy because of the group cap, server stability and overall player population. Run a trial period of cartels not auto generating money and they only generate money when civs do illegal drugs that then deposits a cut into the controlling gangs account. I'll be honest, I was a die hard Asylum player but I've recently switched to Olympus because I feel the developers here are too stubborn to try new things. Just do what the community wants right now for a short period and see how things turn out, it won't hurt anyone to give it a shot. 

Edited January 15, 2018 by Hanzo/Dirty Scrubz

[Crunchedd]

@bamf your biggest issue is not money on asylum money is easy as fuck to get (if youre not stupid)

YOUR BIGGEST ISSUE IS THERES NOTHING TO FUCKING DO SO THERES NO REASON TO LOG ON

1. THE BANK SUCKS ASS

2. FEDS ARE BORING AS SHIT WITH NO PAYOUT

3. ALL THE GANGS ARE SHIT AND THEY DONT FIGHT UNLESS THERES 100K IN THE FRIDGE AND THATS 5 MINUTES OF ACTION

4. DEVS DONT WANT PEOPLE TO HAVE FUN SO THEY NERF EVERYTHING THAT MAKES PLAYING FUN

Edited January 15, 2018 by Crunchedd

[Maaqs]

Just now, Crunchedd said:

3. ALL THE GANGS ARE SHIT AND THEY DONT FIGHT UNLESS THERES 100K IN THE FRIDGE AND THATS 5 MINUTES OF ACTION

The good ol' 'one and done' strat.

Edited January 15, 2018 by Maaqs

[Jamal]

Just now, Crunchedd said:

@bamf your biggest issue is not money on asylum money is easy as fuck to get (if youre not stupid)

YOUR BIGGEST ISSUE IS THERES NOTHING TO FUCKING DO SO THERES NO REASON TO LOG ON

1. THE BANK SUCKS ASS

2. FEDS ARE BORING AS SHIT WITH NO PAYOUT

3. ALL THE GANGS ARE SHIT AND THEY DONT FIGHT UNLESS THERES 100K IN THE FRIDGE AND THATS 5 MINUTES OF ACTION

4. DEVS DONT WANT PEOPLE TO HAVE FUN SO THEY NERF EVERYTHING THAT MAKES PLAYING FUN

Fed paysout roughly 650-700k now if you do it at the right time.

Bank is ass.

 

[TRYHARD]

Just now, bamf said:

 

Arma 3 is an older game now than it was then. People edging 6k hours is far too common and gangs have requirements to join because of the group cap and skill difference. I cant fathom "mega gangs" becoming a thing especially with population being so low. If you need an example of cartel money straight to bank working just look at Olympus like @Crunchedd said.

 

Also what happened to the cartel change that would make it so you dont lose a cut from processing drugs until cap hits 0%? 

[uc.]

Just now, Crunchedd said:

@bamf your biggest issue is not money on asylum money is easy as fuck to get (if youre not stupid)

YOUR BIGGEST ISSUE IS THERES NOTHING TO FUCKING DO SO THERES NO REASON TO LOG ON

1. THE BANK SUCKS ASS

2. FEDS ARE BORING AS SHIT WITH NO PAYOUT

3. ALL THE GANGS ARE SHIT AND THEY DONT FIGHT UNLESS THERES 100K IN THE FRIDGE AND THATS 5 MINUTES OF ACTION

4. DEVS DONT WANT PEOPLE TO HAVE FUN SO THEY NERF EVERYTHING THAT MAKES PLAYING FUN

can you shut the fuck up and go back to olympus you stupid meme

[explicit]

there's a very obvious commonality between the people who voted no...

ill let u guys take a look and decide for urselves 

[goyney]

Just now, Crunchedd said:

@bamf your biggest issue is not money on asylum money is easy as fuck to get (if youre not stupid)

YOUR BIGGEST ISSUE IS THERES NOTHING TO FUCKING DO SO THERES NO REASON TO LOG ON

1. THE BANK SUCKS ASS

2. FEDS ARE BORING AS SHIT WITH NO PAYOUT

3. ALL THE GANGS ARE SHIT AND THEY DONT FIGHT UNLESS THERES 100K IN THE FRIDGE AND THATS 5 MINUTES OF ACTION

4. DEVS DONT WANT PEOPLE TO HAVE FUN SO THEY NERF EVERYTHING THAT MAKES PLAYING FUN

At least the points are in order.

order of getting consistently more austistic as you read down the list.

[explicit]

Just now, Crunchedd said:

3. ALL THE GANGS ARE SHIT AND THEY DONT FIGHT UNLESS THERES 100K IN THE FRIDGE AND THATS 5 MINUTES OF ACTION

are u sure u are in a position to be able to make this claim?

[squidward]

Just now, Crunchedd said:

@bamf your biggest issue is not money on asylum money is easy as fuck to get (if youre not stupid)

YOUR BIGGEST ISSUE IS THERES NOTHING TO FUCKING DO SO THERES NO REASON TO LOG ON

1. THE BANK SUCKS ASS

2. FEDS ARE BORING AS SHIT WITH NO PAYOUT

3. ALL THE GANGS ARE SHIT AND THEY DONT FIGHT UNLESS THERES 100K IN THE FRIDGE AND THATS 5 MINUTES OF ACTION

4. DEVS DONT WANT PEOPLE TO HAVE FUN SO THEY NERF EVERYTHING THAT MAKES PLAYING FUN

If u do a fed like an hour or so before restart and no one doing it before u, if u have a hemmt and ifrit and good players u can take out a good 600 or maybe 700k. 

[bamf]

Just now, Crunchedd said:

4. DEVS DONT WANT PEOPLE TO HAVE FUN SO THEY NERF EVERYTHING THAT MAKES PLAYING FUN

Clearly it's just you I don't want to have fun.  I do try to make the game fun for everyone else but you though.

[Yung Spacegod.]

Just now, bamf said:

Clearly it's just you I don't want to have fun.  I do try to make the game fun for everyone else but you though.

Don't mind him he's stil scared from this 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?ebc=ANyPxKoAF1XFwU-6TCPD0N-YTfqXqKAGebBRdc1ep8MmZ28afxMCNescd3S0vuqH-ZCFgySJp3TFrGfX0rLRL6yyzgfhmTZFdg&v=JOPyD3LY0ZE

Won't let me embed on mobile

Edited January 15, 2018 by Yung Spacegod.

[they took the name eazy]

@bamf 

could you guys give it a test on one of the servers and see how things go?

the community imo would probably be a lot more appreciative that we at least tried the idea

 

or maybe even have a gang perk system and once your gang has collectively achieved enough rating or whatever, you then can get a gang perk which enables 50% of all fridge money to go to gang bank

Edited January 15, 2018 by eazy

[Steve]

Just now, bamf said:

Clearly it's just you I don't want to have fun.  I do try to make the game fun for everyone else but you though.

My question to you would be, if enough people (on real accounts) show their support for this change would you be in favor of making a change?

[bamf]

I'm coding something up to let you guys have this for a week or two as a test.  I'm doing it in a lazy way, but it will be low effort on my part to make it so (and then undo it if necessary).  

[Seán That Irish Guy]

Just now, bamf said:

I'm coding something up to let you guys have this for a week or two as a test.  I'm doing it in a lazy way, but it will be low effort on my part to make it so (and then undo it if necessary).  

Nothing to do with this topic but please fix the cars locking when you get into them and then others not being able to get in when its unlocked without them having keys.

[Steve]

Just now, bamf said:

I'm coding something up to let you guys have this for a week or two as a test.  I'm doing it in a lazy way, but it will be low effort on my part to make it so (and then undo it if necessary).  

Talk to us dad, the details pls.

[bamf]

Just now, Sean That Irish Guy said:

Nothing to do with this topic but please fix the cars locking when you get into them and then others not being able to get in when its unlocked without them having keys.

It's already fixed in dev...

[Rodrigo]

6 hours ago, Steve said:

 

1. People become rats, camping the cartel and rebel, as opposed to actually capping it and getting involved in that part of rebel life.
2. Newer gangs tend to only cap your cartels when you are offline, resulting in them never, or very rarely actually fighting the cartel.
3. Gang members can rat the cartel money, resulting in not all of it going into gang bank. It's not easy to prevent, and it's relatively hard to find out who's doing it when no one else is on. In turn members start to play for them selves and not the gang.

 

1. If people "become" rats that's not something anyone can change, that's how they decide to play on the servers. No need to force people into the "perfect" rebel life.

2. ^

3. Don't have idiots that would do that in a gang, our find a system working for your current gang. Never been an issue in Nv.

[Steve]

Just now, Rodrigo said:

1. If people "become" rats that's not something anyone can change, that's how they decide to play on the servers. No need to force people into the "perfect" rebel life.

2. ^

3. Don't have idiots that would do that in a gang, our find a system working for your current gang. Never been an issue in Nv.

I wouldn't wanna force people into anything.

But I would like to see the incentive for capping a cartel be having the cap over having the dirty money. It's painfully obvious to me that the newer players see cartels as a dirty money generator to profit off of by camping rebel, instead of actually fighting the cap. Would you rather kill 1 dude at a rebel or fight a cartel and win? Either way you prosper and keep your gear and what not, but it fighting the cartel against a newer gang introduces them to something they might not otherwise experience if they were simply camping rebel.

[[§] Alex]

30 minutes ago, bamf said:

We want you guys to fight. 

But cops can now raid contested cartels. A change that discourage fighting cartels. Before you looked to see how many cops are on before starting a fed/bank/prison. Now we have to do the same for a cartel. Is it worth going to stop someone from taking your cartel if 15 cops could show up and sandwich you?

[Rodrigo]

Just now, Steve said:

I wouldn't wanna force people into anything.

But I would like to see the incentive for capping a cartel be having the cap over having the dirty money. It's painfully obvious to me that the newer players see cartels as a dirty money generator to profit off of by camping rebel, instead of actually fighting the cap. Would you rather kill 1 dude at a rebel or fight a cartel and win? Either way you prosper and keep your gear and what not, but it fighting the cartel against a newer gang introduces them to something they might not otherwise experience if they were simply camping rebel.

The thing is, if that's how they want to play there is nothing we can do bro. And if the newer player are doing that I would say it's a smart call.

[Lorax]

7 hours ago, Steve said:

Gang members can rat the cartel money, resulting in not all of it going into gang bank. It's not easy to prevent, and it's relatively hard to find out who's doing it when no one else is on. In turn members start to play for them selves and not the gang.

How is this a disadvantage? I relatively enjoy filling my bank account for free!

[Steve]

Just now, Rodrigo said:

The thing is, if that's how they want to play there is nothing we can do bro. And if the newer player are doing that I would say it's a smart call.

If you had the choice, which way would it be for you?

[Rodrigo]

15 minutes ago, Crunchedd said:

@bamf your biggest issue is not money on asylum money is easy as fuck to get (if youre not stupid)

YOUR BIGGEST ISSUE IS THERES NOTHING TO FUCKING DO SO THERES NO REASON TO LOG ON

1. THE BANK SUCKS ASS

2. FEDS ARE BORING AS SHIT WITH NO PAYOUT

3. ALL THE GANGS ARE SHIT AND THEY DONT FIGHT UNLESS THERES 100K IN THE FRIDGE AND THATS 5 MINUTES OF ACTION

4. DEVS DONT WANT PEOPLE TO HAVE FUN SO THEY NERF EVERYTHING THAT MAKES PLAYING FUN

You need to relax Crunchedd. You just talk out of your ass. 

[Rodrigo]

Just now, Steve said:

If you had the choice, which way would it be for you?

Am I a new player?

[massi]

This won't do anything if the servers are still unstable 

[Steve]

Just now, Rodrigo said:

Am I a new player?

By no means you are not.

[Steve]

Just now, massi said:

This won't do anything if the servers are still unstable 

They are far better then they were 2 weeks ago believe me. They are not seamless by any stretch but the improvement is something I started to think I'd never see.