Jump to content

Again, Locking it doesnt make it wrong.

Gatorade

By Gatorade,
in Altis Life Discussion

Recommended Posts

Gatorade

Gatorade

Posted
  • Author
Posted
Just now, Killswitch said:

I would really like everyone to take note on this comment right here. I don't think you guys really understand how much spectating and submitted videos it takes for one person to get banned for 3rd Party Apps.

Take good ol Perry/Destro for example. I believe I spectated that guy for 4-5 hours, we had probably 5 submitted videos of him, and still he never got banned by Motown or Bamf. I told them I would sell my left nut for science if he wasn't cheating. And 1 month later, guess what happens...yep he was global eye banned during the Inuria ban wave. Same thing with Samson, Ezra, Kr1t1kal, Fearless, Corrado, King Identites...shall I continue? 

I don't think the community truly understands how hard it is for us to get an approved ban from Motown or Bamf for 3rd Party Apps. Sure, they can say they will show us their PCs or scan everything and show it to us, but that doesn't mean shit. Sure we had one huge ban wave that went through without Bamfs or Motowns approval, and look what happened? It caused a shit-storm and now both of those Admins are no longer Admins. 

Trust me, we do notice everyone's advice and I even made a google document that I transferred from all the suggestions forum and gave it to Paratus. There is only soo much we can do as Admins. I go through the suggestion threads almost daily to see what cool things everyone from the community is suggesting, but all I can really do is collect it, and give it to the big man. If he likes it, he will put it in. If he doesn't, he won't. 

@Sugarfoot if you do truly leave, I wish you the best of luck whatever server you choose or game you choose to play. But I must warn you, you will be surprised how much faster people are banned on other servers for 'hackusations'. Go ask some of the members of this community how long it took some of them to get perm banned on other servers because they are just good at this game. 

I agree with everything you say but my point of checking the computers was - X player is given X video proving he cheats. If that player can prove he has no cheats on his computer and while being monitored can recreate the video that should show something.

I also agree with other servers , because there isn't a server out here even nearly as good as this server, and there never will be. Thats why I gave a shit enough to post this. I still love playing here, I just dont see the point in making an effort to getting better or progressing my gang

Link to comment
  • Replies 520
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Days

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Days

Popular Posts

Gatorade
Gatorade

             Good luck to the new gangs that will be taking over, enjoy the server while you can, make friends you can keep. I really enjoyed my time here but im not sure if I can honestly say

Buckwalter
Buckwalter

Firstly, I'd like to point out that Nex has been here forever. Prior to the garage change 18 months ago, he had the last surviving fuel truck in his garage (asylum used to have fuel

Bikstok
Bikstok

Posted Images

Gatorade

Gatorade

Posted
  • Author
Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, epTic said:

you've seen worse lag, but have you seen any more consistent lag than Sheep? 

Yup, ive seen people who do things on purpose rather then people who live in an area that has shit internet. Just so happens those people have a very good control of there tongue and sit in higher places.

"excuse my spelling

Edited by Sugarfoot
Link to comment
Reformed epTic

Reformed epTic

Posted
Posted
Just now, Sugarfoot said:

Yup, ive seen people who do things on purpose rather then people who live in an area that has shit internet. Just so happens those people have a very good control of there tounge and sit in higher places.

I can guarantee that I used to have worse internet than Sheep. 

I'd be lucky to get 2mbps download speeds, so unless he was literally on dial up and his nan just happened to love gossiping during cartels. 

Link to comment
Buckwalter

Buckwalter

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, Sugarfoot said:

I appreciate you taking notice, one thing id like to point out is players are never given any glipse of evidence to defend them selves - for good reason, but when players offer up there PC's for scans / control and offer to recreate video's and show that there combat is identical previous and post issue. That should shed some light and you should be willing. I have seen people banned and accused for no recoil because they know how to pull the gun down man.... i offered to recreate exact situations, given IP's to servers that video's were obtained from, and its all just fruitless. We both know those avenues will never be gone down or used. Itll just be swept away

Often times we aren't receptive towards offers to go through someone's computer because they are likely to have removed any offending files or created a clean virtual machine. So you can see why in our minds, this wouldn't be a productive use of time. As for the second scenario about recreating conditions, generally this doesn't carry much weight as there is no way to control for all the variables. But beyond that, it is usually a refutation of something that has nothing to do with the ban. People assume they were banned for this instance or that and try to prove those specific incidents valid. However since we don't make evidence public, they are usually completely unaware of the concrete evidence that a recreation simply couldn't nullify. 

And again, I empathize with people's frustration. Especially those close to the person who believe them, absent any evidence they would of course assume the worst about our process. But for now, that's a necessary evil. And especially in an environment where people disseminate their own narrative of a situation publicly, it's important to be fastidious about what is or is not likely to be true. For example, your assertion that you've seen someone banned for no recoil because they know how to pull the gun down; you haven't seen the evidence that led to the ban, you've only heard the narrative that is spread after the fact. And those carefully constructed deflections often lead to the idea that people are banned for next to nothing. Which is unbelievably frustrating for the admin team. 

A perfect example was directly after aidzo was banned. Someone was on twitch defending his honor and talking about how he was banned for being good. I sat there, having seen all the evidence watching people rally to the defense of someone I could prove guilty with no question. But had to keep quiet due to policy. It's frustrating for everyone and it really harms the relationship between server staff and the player base.

 

10 minutes ago, ofekl said:

Well , after the "nv wave" when they got unbanned afterwards , admins are sure that if they ban someone
 

I'd just like to address something in respect to that ban wave. And I'm not sure if this has been made public or not, hopefully I'm not overstepping by saying this.

But that ban wave was the result of unilateral action by one individual. It didn't follow our sufficient evidence guidelines, nor go through the necessary CM approval stage, which is why the bans were over turned immediately and even stricter standards were set. 

I realize that incident significantly harmed our reputation, destroyed trust and frankly made us look foolish. But I want you to know that this is not how we operate and when mistakes are made, we work to correct them immediately, and then take the necessary steps to prevent such occurrences in the future.

Ofek, BaDaBiNg_10-8, Kalier and 3 others like this
Link to comment
Larry

Larry

Posted
Posted (edited)
27 minutes ago, Buckwalter said:

Firstly, I'd like to point out that Nex has been here forever. Prior to the garage change 18 months ago, he had the last surviving fuel truck in his garage (asylum used to have fuel trucks). 

As to the larger issue at hand, while I appreciate your attempt to avoid specifics and keep things conceptual, it's made it somewhat difficult to distill down your point. If you're suggesting people are being banned for cheating willy nilly because someone accused them of cheating, I can assure you that isn't the way we operate. Motown and Paratus would not tolerate such an approach.

Continuing, if your assertion is that hackusations end up getting people banned, the answer again is no. That being said, when someone is suspected of cheating, more and more people will record and report which eventually can lead to more thorough administrative investigation. But even then, we have thorough evidentiary requirements that must be upheld. Which is why there is often frustration in the community about "inaction" against people that are broadly suspected of cheating. If we don't have the evidence, we don't ban. 

Further, I understand many people are left feeling unsatisfied with the outcome of these investigations as the evidence is never made public, not even to the player in question. So their friends and associates are often outraged and decry the entire process as unfair and corrupt. However this is done simply to ensure that people don't know how they were caught and cannot easily avoid detection in the future. 

Lastly, yes these things seem to be happening with increased frequency. People get in these weird feuds with other players, a lot of shit talk in side chat, egos on the line, burnt out and apathetic, etc etc and they decide to cheat. Or use other insidious means of securing an advantage. Then they get caught, then they get banned, then the silent majority sights in relief while the individual's friends go apoplectic on the forums.  

If I have failed to address your specific concerns, please let me know and I will attempt to do so. But the broad point I'm trying to make is that this is a video game, sometimes people cheat and as a result we have to ban them. I know that it's frustrating and the policy of secrecy exacerbates that, but we're all trying our best to ensure a healthy, fun and cheater free experience for everyone who plays asylum. 

As for your concerns about toxicity, I'm in complete agreement. I think it's gotten worse and frankly out of hand. The amount of outright ugliness that people throw at eachother is unbelievable and it's a shame. But there isn't much we can do currently to get people to interact with eachother with a little basic decency. 

Well said sir, well said

well done reaction applause shia labeouf clapping

Edited by Larry
BaDaBiNg_10-8, Bilal Battu, HaroldWest and 1 other like this
Link to comment
Gatorade

Gatorade

Posted
  • Author
Posted
Just now, Buckwalter said:

Often times we aren't receptive towards offers to go through someone's computer because they are likely to have removed any offending files or created a clean virtual machine. So you can see why in our minds, this wouldn't be a productive use of time. As for the second scenario about recreating conditions, generally this doesn't carry much weight as there is no way to control for all the variables. But beyond that, it is usually a refutation of something that has nothing to do with the ban. People assume they were banned for this instance or that and try to prove those specific incidents valid. However since we don't make evidence public, they are usually completely unaware of the concrete evidence that a recreation simply couldn't nullify. 

And again, I empathize with people's frustration. Especially those close to the person who believe them, absent any evidence they would of course assume the worst about our process. But for now, that's a necessary evil. And especially in an environment where people disseminate their own narrative of a situation publicly, it's important to be fastidious about what is or is not likely to be true. For example, your assertion that you've seen someone banned for no recoil because they know how to pull the gun down; you haven't seen the evidence that led to the ban, you've only heard the narrative that is spread after the fact. And those carefully constructed deflections often lead to the idea that people are banned for next to nothing. Which is unbelievably frustrating for the admin team. 

A perfect example was directly after aidzo was banned. Someone was on twitch defending his honor and talking about how he was banned for being good. I sat there, having seen all the evidence watching people rally to the defense of someone I could prove guilty with no question. But had to keep quiet due to policy. It's frustrating for everyone and it really harms the relationship between server staff and the player base.

 

I'd just like to address something in respect to that ban wave. And I'm not sure if this has been made public or not, hopefully I'm not overstepping by saying this.

But that ban wave was the result of unilateral action by one individual. It didn't follow our sufficient evidence guidelines, nor go through the necessary CM approval stage, which is why the bans were over turned immediately and even stricter standards were set. 

I realize that incident significantly harmed our reputation, destroyed trust and frankly made us look foolish. But I want you to know that this is not how we operate and when mistakes are made, we work to correct them immediately, and then take the necessary steps to prevent such occurrences in the future.

I respect everything you say , and its easy to understand when its not happening to players you play with / against   - I can't stand to understand it now that I have seen it happen to them. I have offered up the servers which the players accused play on, I have offered my own ability and evidence in addition to the players banned. The truth is once you guys make up your mind you really dont give us a fighting chance. If I am saying that I can recreate the exact "moves" i guess you would call it of a "Cheater" then eithor that makes me also a cheater, or neithor of us. Thats why I stated you could team view a players computer and he could twitch it , then go in game and recreate anything necissary. Lets face it, no recoil , no sway, and anything to do with aim can be easily seen if a player took it off.

Link to comment
Guest

Guest

Posted
Posted (edited)

In all honesty, I'm of the opinion that a perm ban by the admins for 3rd party apps has to have the most blatant, undeniable evidence possible. Why? Because it's very much like Buckwalter says, it takes forever to get players who are "sketchy" banned, even when its plainly obvious for the majority of the community and it is particularly frustrating.

In all honesty it must suck if one of your friends get banned for cheating but I've always been of the opinion that if one of my friends/gang mate gets banned for cheating then i would accept it as the truth due to the extensive amount of undeniable evidence there must be.  

No shots at you Sugerfoot, always enjoyed playing with/against you and your gang. Best of luck to you whether you stay or not. 

Edited by Inquisitor
Link to comment
Bilal Battu

Bilal Battu

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, Buckwalter said:

Often times we aren't receptive towards offers to go through someone's computer because they are likely to have removed any offending files or created a clean virtual machine. So you can see why in our minds, this wouldn't be a productive use of time. As for the second scenario about recreating conditions, generally this doesn't carry much weight as there is no way to control for all the variables. But beyond that, it is usually a refutation of something that has nothing to do with the ban. People assume they were banned for this instance or that and try to prove those specific incidents valid. However since we don't make evidence public, they are usually completely unaware of the concrete evidence that a recreation simply couldn't nullify. 

And again, I empathize with people's frustration. Especially those close to the person who believe them, absent any evidence they would of course assume the worst about our process. But for now, that's a necessary evil. And especially in an environment where people disseminate their own narrative of a situation publicly, it's important to be fastidious about what is or is not likely to be true. For example, your assertion that you've seen someone banned for no recoil because they know how to pull the gun down; you haven't seen the evidence that led to the ban, you've only heard the narrative that is spread after the fact. And those carefully constructed deflections often lead to the idea that people are banned for next to nothing. Which is unbelievably frustrating for the admin team. 

A perfect example was directly after aidzo was banned. Someone was on twitch defending his honor and talking about how he was banned for being good. I sat there, having seen all the evidence watching people rally to the defense of someone I could prove guilty with no question. But had to keep quiet due to policy. It's frustrating for everyone and it really harms the relationship between server staff and the player base.

 

I'd just like to address something in respect to that ban wave. And I'm not sure if this has been made public or not, hopefully I'm not overstepping by saying this.

But that ban wave was the result of unilateral action by one individual. It didn't follow our sufficient evidence guidelines, nor go through the necessary CM approval stage, which is why the bans were over turned immediately and even stricter standards were set. 

I realize that incident significantly harmed our reputation, destroyed trust and frankly made us look foolish. But I want you to know that this is not how we operate and when mistakes are made, we work to correct them immediately, and then take the necessary steps to prevent such occurrences in the future.

You win just lock the fucking thread like the champion that you are!

BaDaBiNg_10-8, Jessie Slaughter and Larry like this
Link to comment
Gatorade

Gatorade

Posted
  • Author
Posted
7 minutes ago, epTic said:

I can guarantee that I used to have worse internet than Sheep. 

I'd be lucky to get 2mbps download speeds, so unless he was literally on dial up and his nan just happened to love gossiping during cartels. 

I've played on shit internet, I play with poko using up most of the god damn internet half the time anyways. Sometimes the lag hurts other players , but it sure as hell hurts you just as much. As far as im concerned unless its ridiculous or intetional you dont ban someone for it. Sheep didn't lag enough for me to even give a fuck, and he was the guy I went against the most

Link to comment
Gatorade

Gatorade

Posted
  • Author
Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Inquisitor said:

In all honesty, I'm of the opinion that a perm ban by the admins for 3rd party apps has to have the most blatant, undeniable evidence possible. Why? Because it's very much like Buckwalter says, it takes forever to get players who are "sketchy" banned, even when its plainly obvious for the majority of the community and it is particularly frustrating.

In all honesty it must suck if one of your friends get banned for cheating but I've always been of the opinion that if one of my friends/gang mate gets banned for cheating then i would accept it as the truth due to the extensive amount of undeniable evidence there must be.  

No shots at you Sugerfoot, always enjoyed playing with/against you and your gang. Best of luck to you whether you stay or not. 

None taken, You make all good points. Its just I take the time and actually watch people play in my gang. I do it for alot of reasons,

I want to get better, and learn from them. I want to see what they do wrong so we can get better together. I hate fucking cheaters and If i think there cheating I check. I have kick people out of my gang and reported them if I caught them or thought they were cheating - Which admins have proof that I have done this

I have taken the time to spectate them during trainings on NMD, ask admins on CQC servers to watch them. I want to know if people are cheating, because quite frankly I wanted to make a gang that could contest with any of the top tier gangs without cheating. Its a hell of alot easier joining bad blood then it is making a gang to beat them

Edited by Sugarfoot
Link to comment
Larry

Larry

Posted
Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, Sugarfoot said:

None taken, You make all good points. Its just I take the time and actually watch people play in my gang. I do it for alot of reasons,

I want to get better, and learn from them. I want to see what they do wrong so we can get better together. I hate fucking cheaters and If i think there cheating I check. I have kick people out of my gang and reported them if I caught them or thought they were cheating - Which admins have proof that I have done this

I know who we are talking about ;)

And I like it, I like it ALot 

Edited by Larry
Link to comment
Whitey

Whitey

Posted
Posted

Ok so b4 this gets locked and while i can get a comment in... 

I strive to be the best at whatever I do.  Even something as trivial as video games,  I take it seriously so i can get better.  I always thought I was good at ArmA until I came to Asylum.  I got raped my first day here fighting.  since then i have been practicing to make sure I was a threat to whoever i was fighting against.  I have been practicing at CQC and quick peaking.  I would like to think that I have gotten far better as a player then I was.  With all of the recent bans I am starting to worry that there is someone who will report me for "cheating" when in reality it is just that i have practiced, drilled, and out communicated them.  I dont want to constantly be worried that if one day i am at a cartel and i play exceptionally well that there might be an incoming ban for hacking.  What is motivating me to continue becoming a better player if there is a chance that i will get banned.

Link to comment
Buckwalter

Buckwalter

Posted
Posted
18 minutes ago, Sugarfoot said:

I respect everything you say , and its easy to understand when its not happening to players you play with / against   - I can't stand to understand it now that I have seen it happen to them. I have offered up the servers which the players accused play on, I have offered my own ability and evidence in addition to the players banned. The truth is once you guys make up your mind you really dont give us a fighting chance. If I am saying that I can recreate the exact "moves" i guess you would call it of a "Cheater" then eithor that makes me also a cheater, or neithor of us. Thats why I stated you could team view a players computer and he could twitch it , then go in game and recreate anything necissary. Lets face it, no recoil , no sway, and anything to do with aim can be easily seen if a player took it off.

Again the issue here is that usually someone is assuming they've been banned for something and they attempt to recreate it legitimately, but they've been banned for something totally different. So it ends up being irrelevant. 

I understand why you are hesitant to simply take my word on these matters. That mistrust has been a growing issue in our community as evidenced and inflamed by the cavalcade of #freeWhomever campaigns that litter forums signatures and teamspeak descriptions with increasing frequency.

However if I can put it really bluntly, the easiest way to test the veracity of my claims is this: Grow your gang, progress your skills, remain in community and see what happens. I can guarantee with 100% certitude that no matter how good you get, if you play within the rules, you'll have no issues with us. No matter how many people grumble, no matter how many people call hacks, if there is nothing there to find, we can't ban you. A) We wouldn't want to B ) Motown, Bamf and Paratus wouldn't let us. 

A lot of people believe that where there's smoke there's fire, but with regard to our evidence procedure, smoke doesn't count for anything. If we can't find the fire and prove it empirically, there's no fire. 

There's been a great deal of talk in this thread about other people who have received permanent bans for various reasons. Some of those situation certainly look strange or unjust from an outside perspective. They only see the final ban not the 20 prior bans, 5 verbal warnings, and 2 "last, last chances" to amend the behavior. Or in the case of people who have been banned for cheating, they only see the hackusations then the ban itself. They don't see the laborious efforts of our team, carefully observing this player in game or combing through logs. These situations are often complex and if I had to estimate the average investigation length is about 6 weeks. 

So all I'm asking is that you be circumspect about the claims of banned players and that you continue to advance and progress and see firsthand that we don't ban people for being good or because someone accused them of cheating. 

HaroldWest, Bilal Battu, Volunteer281 and 2 others like this
Link to comment
hamsham12

hamsham12

Posted
Posted

I can name 5 players who were better than any hacker and got more kills and were respected more at any point in time:

1. Rodrigo

2. Technique

3. Bikstok

4. Jeremy

5. Shearsy

When you lie about cheating so much, you start to believe it yourself, everyday when you log on and inject the script and everyone accuses you of cheating you respond, "lol hacking?? haha XD u guis just SUCK XDDD" Trust me when I say this, everytime I fought Harley he positioned perfectly, killed multiple people, then denied, the whole thing. There are good players, then there are cheaters, easy to tell the two apart.

HotWings, BaDaBiNg_10-8, Zoex and 5 others like this
Link to comment
Emma

Emma

Posted
Posted
Just now, hamsham12 said:

I can name 5 players who were better than any hacker and got more kills and were respected more at any point in time:

1. Rodrigo

2. Technique

3. Bikstok

4. Jeremy

5. Shearsy

When you lie about cheating so much, you start to believe it yourself, everyday when you log on and inject the script and everyone accuses you of cheating you respond, "lol hacking?? haha XD u guis just SUCK XDDD" Trust me when I say this, everytime I fought Harley he positioned perfectly, killed multiple people, then denied, the whole thing. There are good players, then there are cheaters, easy to tell the two apart.

So is Harley a good player or a cheater? :D

Link to comment
Emma

Emma

Posted
Posted
Just now, hamsham12 said:

 

Dunno, if you couldn't understand and figure it out by yourself, maybe these forums are too intellectual for you, which is ironic since Krypton posts daily..

Just the wording seems, almost awkward in a way. It doesn't read like any sentence that I've seen, to many comma splices make the statement hard to read.

Link to comment
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
Go to topic listing

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...