How long should cartel captures be locked?

[skrood]

30 minutes is enough  

[Steve]

On 9/9/2017 at 5:17 PM, Goyneyyy said:

No chops before 6.0?

Bare in mind that for some time you could only chop what was on the chop list.

I kinda liked this, people had balls.

Edited September 11, 2017 by Steve

[Manolo]

No Chops and Friendly Rebel is hilarious.....

I think 15 mins is fine but as it was mentioned make it so the enemy gang needs to Cap it 100% to 0% cap before 

the perk is taken away from the gang that holds it.

[skrood]

do it 15 but you need to get a perk for the gang the cartel cap will be not get capture for 30 min 

[HotWings]

On 9/9/2017 at 4:24 PM, Goyneyyy said:

We need changes in content.

Not people.

This community is way less toxic than it used to be.

What "content" can be added that isnt exactly like everything else with a different name? 

[TRYHARD]

26 minutes ago, HotWings said:

What "content" can be added that isnt exactly like everything else with a different name? 

Something doesnt have to be new and unheard of to be a change. Most people want to go back to what worked. 

[HotWings]

53 minutes ago, tryhardsqueaker said:

Something doesnt have to be new and unheard of to be a change. Most people want to go back to what worked. 

People want free money and no need to do anything, I get it, its not going to happen. Crying about it wont change that.

[Sheriff Rick Grimes]

Just now, HotWings said:

People want free money and no need to do anything, I get it, its not going to happen. Crying about it wont change that.

 

Except nobody is saying that.  Pre-6.0 changes are not free money or having to do nothing.

[Windmere]

On 9/9/2017 at 5:24 PM, Goyneyyy said:

We need changes in content.

Not people.

This community is way less toxic than it used to be.

What content do you want in specific?

[goyney]

7 hours ago, Windmere said:

What content do you want in specific?

If it was up to me...

• APD Evidence/Contraband Locker - All seized contraband claimed by the APD from Civs goes into a locker. This locker could use up the compound where skiptracer was first formed. Civs can attack the evidence locker after 2/3 hours of each restart has passed; once per restart. If the attackers are successful, they get X% of the contraband for themselves. Get rid of the high defense points in the compound to balance attack and defend situations.
• Group cap - There shouldn't be one.
• Bank/Fed Payouts - Increase them.
• Vehicle prices - Decrease them by 10/15%. 110k for an orca is ridiculous. Especially when we can loose one to a player with no skill with a 9mm pistol. @GnashesIfrits are expensive too. New gangs and new players look at these prices and turn their noses. Hence gang vs. gang fights barely being a thing anymore. We need newer gangs to have the incentive to fight without having to potentially bear such a high loss.
• Chop shop claims - Give players the opportunity to claim a vehicle at the expense of [20-30%] of the vehicles current market price. 

Feel free to add on...

 

Edited September 12, 2017 by Goyneyyy

[TRYHARD]

11 minutes ago, Goyneyyy said:

If it was up to me...

• APD Evidence/Contraband Locker - All seized contraband claimed by the APD from Civs goes into a locker. This locker could use up the compound where skiptracer was first formed. Civs can attack the evidence locker after 2/3 hours of each restart has passed; once per restart. If the attackers are successful, they get X% of the contraband for themselves. Get rid of the high defense points in the compound to balance attack and defend situations.
• Group cap - There shouldn't be one.
• Bank/Fed Payouts - Increase them.
• Vehicle prices - Decrease them by 10/15%. 110k for an orca is ridiculous. Especially when we can loose one to a player with no skill with a 9mm pistol. @GnashesIfrits are expensive too. New gangs and new players look at these prices and turn their noses. Hence gang vs. gang fights barely being a thing anymore. We need newer gangs to have the incentive to fight without having to potentially bear such a high loss.
• Chop shop claims - Give players the opportunity to claim a vehicle at the expense of [20-30%] of the vehicles current market price. 

Feel free to add on...

 

• Prison "payout" needs work too. There really is no incentive to breaking out your friends when you only save them about 10-15 minutes of their sentence tops and you risk you and you gang being sent straight to jail for attempting a prison break. If you break them out they also get a straight to jail offence as well as their old bounty. 

          A solution might be that when a escaped prisoner leaves they are given only the "Escaped from jail" charge and they can pay it off at a courthouse later. And make it so you                 can not be sent straight to jail for attempting a prison break.

• Cap for cops based on current civ pop/hard cap of around 15
• Lower prices of Guns/loadouts
• Cartel money goes straight to gang bank

 

[Pizza Man]

On 9/9/2017 at 5:21 PM, Budbringer said:

Casino Cartel.

Gang in ownership of said cartel will reap all the money players lose gambling, but also lose all the money the players are winning

then what does the governor make for money?

[Google™]

So... Looks like 30 minutes won when can we see this implemented?

[norbs]

As someone that spends most of his day capping and defending cartels, 15min is too short no question. 30min might be a tad too long also. IMO it should be 20-25min preferably 22min - random I know. 

 

The logic is that if you control all points, people tend to point hop and/or hit many cartels at once. Currently, if you defend say drug and head to the far east oil spawn to defend drug could already be under attack before you even get back. When oil, drug,  and wongs are all clustered together its not an issue but it's annoying when wongs is far Noth, oil is far east, and arms is far south. Even with a large gang and a worker ant / warrior ant strategy. 

Conversely, if your a small gang and just want to cap drug to sell drugs without penalty and you fight hard for it..  Even if you suicide and spawn at your house to collect your drugs 99% chance you won't make it in time to sell before the point is under attack. The same goes for buying guns or selling at wongs. 

Increasing the hold time is a balance for both small gangs that want profits, and large gangs that want total domination. 

Just my 2 cents. 

[pr0digyt]

Here's my feedback: right now finding a fight at cartels is relatively hard. There are 2-3 gangs that will reliably fight. However, all the other low tier gangs have recognized the fact that it is more effective to wait until they know their enemies aren't at the cartel.

Here's a perfect example of my STANDARD experience with the current system. Let's say I capture drug cartel. Let's further say I still want a fight (which is completely and utterly realistic). To achieve that fight I will go to Arms cartel. Low Tier gang "ExampleGang" notices I have captured drug cartel. I will spend 5 minutes travelling to Arms Cartel and I'll spend approximately 10 minutes capping Arms Cartel. This means I'll be halfway done Arms Cartel when ExampleGang avoids the fight and goes to Drug Cartel. (The cooldown period wears off at 15 minutes). I am now presented with two options. 

Option 1) Leave Arms Cartel to defend drug. I will leave Arms Cartel open to a rat who can now cap the Cartel in the time it would take me to go to Drug Cartel and back. Undesirable for obvious reasons. Im already at a disadvantage because now I have to attack rather than defend, but let's say I still wipe the 2 guys at Drug but it takes me 5 minutes travel time and 5 minutes kill time. That means Drug Cartel requires me to stay there for 10 minutes to cap it. I now have two cartels needing 10 minutes. Guess where my lovely ExampleGang are heading? Arms Cartel. And even if I say "fuck it" and leave them to keep Arms I will never be able to do anything with Drug Cartel before they realize I'm not in the area and start capping it again. If I stay at the Cartels I'm playing whack-a-mole trying to cover all my locations and I will never have the opportunity to sell dirty money or use Cartel perks without sacrificing one of the cartels. ExampleGang is a bitch and will continue to go where I am not because they can basically cap the moment I start doing anything else after I cap.

Option 2) Stay at Arms Cartel. I say, "Fuck it, let them have the thing I spent 20 minutes capping because I don't want to play Whack-a-mole." Now this scenario implies I do not wish to go back to Drug Cartel AFTER I cap Arms because then I would end up at the start of the whole story as seen ABOVE "Option 1" except with the Drug Cartel and Arms Cartel's names switched. Therefore, I intend on leaving the Cartel with dirty money and selling it, or simply doing something with my Cartel perks. We've established I can't effectively use the perks in 15 minutes given travel time for things and ExampleGang are such rats they won't go to Arms until they know I'm doing something else. 

 

Therefore I conclude it is much more logical to give a 30 minute cooldown to discourage "wait until they're gone" actions since you'd have to gear up and wait for a much more significant amount of time which is considered boring and undesirable for such gangs. In general, this would also give people more time to do Drug runs, Scotch sells etc after capping a Cartel specifically for that reason.

If you don't agree with my reasoning just point out the flaw and I'm happy to respond with the most logical conclusion I can.

Edited October 5, 2017 by pr0digyt

[salty.connor]

On 9/12/2017 at 4:45 AM, Goyneyyy said:

If it was up to me...

• APD Evidence/Contraband Locker - All seized contraband claimed by the APD from Civs goes into a locker. This locker could use up the compound where skiptracer was first formed. Civs can attack the evidence locker after 2/3 hours of each restart has passed; once per restart. If the attackers are successful, they get X% of the contraband for themselves. Get rid of the high defense points in the compound to balance attack and defend situations.
• Group cap - There shouldn't be one.
• Bank/Fed Payouts - Increase them.
• Vehicle prices - Decrease them by 10/15%. 110k for an orca is ridiculous. Especially when we can loose one to a player with no skill with a 9mm pistol. @GnashesIfrits are expensive too. New gangs and new players look at these prices and turn their noses. Hence gang vs. gang fights barely being a thing anymore. We need newer gangs to have the incentive to fight without having to potentially bear such a high loss.
• Chop shop claims - Give players the opportunity to claim a vehicle at the expense of [20-30%] of the vehicles current market price. 

Feel free to add on... 

Get Rid Of Retard Admins!

 

 

[Crossfade]

On 06/10/2017 at 4:53 AM, pr0digyt said:

Here's my feedback: right now finding a fight at cartels is relatively hard. There are 2-3 gangs that will reliably fight. However, all the other low tier gangs have recognized the fact that it is more effective to wait until they know their enemies aren't at the cartel.

Here's a perfect example of my STANDARD experience with the current system. Let's say I capture drug cartel. Let's further say I still want a fight (which is completely and utterly realistic). To achieve that fight I will go to Arms cartel. Low Tier gang "ExampleGang" notices I have captured drug cartel. I will spend 5 minutes travelling to Arms Cartel and I'll spend approximately 10 minutes capping Arms Cartel. This means I'll be halfway done Arms Cartel when ExampleGang avoids the fight and goes to Drug Cartel. (The cooldown period wears off at 15 minutes). I am now presented with two options. 

Option 1) Leave Arms Cartel to defend drug. I will leave Arms Cartel open to a rat who can now cap the Cartel in the time it would take me to go to Drug Cartel and back. Undesirable for obvious reasons. Im already at a disadvantage because now I have to attack rather than defend, but let's say I still wipe the 2 guys at Drug but it takes me 5 minutes travel time and 5 minutes kill time. That means Drug Cartel requires me to stay there for 10 minutes to cap it. I now have two cartels needing 10 minutes. Guess where my lovely ExampleGang are heading? Arms Cartel. And even if I say "fuck it" and leave them to keep Arms I will never be able to do anything with Drug Cartel before they realize I'm not in the area and start capping it again. If I stay at the Cartels I'm playing whack-a-mole trying to cover all my locations and I will never have the opportunity to sell dirty money or use Cartel perks without sacrificing one of the cartels. ExampleGang is a bitch and will continue to go where I am not because they can basically cap the moment I start doing anything else after I cap.

Option 2) Stay at Arms Cartel. I say, "Fuck it, let them have the thing I spent 20 minutes capping because I don't want to play Whack-a-mole." Now this scenario implies I do not wish to go back to Drug Cartel AFTER I cap Arms because then I would end up at the start of the whole story as seen ABOVE "Option 1" except with the Drug Cartel and Arms Cartel's names switched. Therefore, I intend on leaving the Cartel with dirty money and selling it, or simply doing something with my Cartel perks. We've established I can't effectively use the perks in 15 minutes given travel time for things and ExampleGang are such rats they won't go to Arms until they know I'm doing something else. 

 

Therefore I conclude it is much more logical to give a 30 minute cooldown to discourage "wait until they're gone" actions since you'd have to gear up and wait for a much more significant amount of time which is considered boring and undesirable for such gangs. In general, this would also give people more time to do Drug runs, Scotch sells etc after capping a Cartel specifically for that reason.

If you don't agree with my reasoning just point out the flaw and I'm happy to respond with the most logical conclusion I can.

+1 

tbh 30min cool down is the sweet spot

[pr0digyt]

Just now, frantic said:

there is no fucking way im reading that. TDLR please

If you refuse to read less than a page of sequential logic your opinion on the information posted is rather irrelevant.

Please, go ahead and vote for whatever you want, but that's where your opinion ends - it becomes merely an uninformed statistic.

Nonetheless, your so-desired TLDR; 30 minutes means more time to do shit and people can't just go wherever you aren't to avoid a fight as easily. The post aims to demonstrate the fallacies of the current system.

[Bash Barti]

On 10/8/2017 at 3:06 AM, pr0digyt said:

If you refuse to read less than a page of sequential logic your opinion on the information posted is rather irrelevant.

Please, go ahead and vote for whatever you want, but that's where your opinion ends - it becomes merely an uninformed statistic.

Nonetheless, your so-desired TLDR; 30 minutes means more time to do shit and people can't just go wherever you aren't to avoid a fight as easily. The post aims to demonstrate the fallacies of the current system.

Bruh 30 minutes, drug cartel always gets contesteted mid run so just make it 30 to do a quick meth or coke run

[pr0digyt]

50 minutes ago, Bash Barti said:

Bruh 30 minutes, drug cartel always gets contesteted mid run so just make it 30 to do a quick meth or coke run

This, yes. The only reason I didn't just leave it at a sentence or two is for any developers who read the thread. (Enough people said 30 minutes to justify switching, but nobody took the initiative to lay it out sequentially to make it a valid opinion)

[TheLegend27]

On 9/9/2017 at 2:16 PM, Rodrigo said:

15 minutes is fine.

Because you are part of NV nerd

[Rodrigo]

Just now, TheLegend27 said:

Because you are part of NV nerd

Why does that change anything?

[TheLegend27]

Just now, Rodrigo said:

Why does that change anything?

Since your gang is so large you can craft stuff while your gang protects the cartel. For me I'm in a solo gang right now and I can't craft shit because after I cap the cartel one of your nerds takes it back 15 minutes later. Currently gangs are to based on amount of players and how much money they have

Edited October 24, 2017 by TheLegend27

[TheLegend27]

Personally i think it should lock until server restart

[Rodrigo]

Just now, TheLegend27 said:

Since your gang is so large you can craft stuff while your gang protects the cartel. For me I'm in a solo gang right now and I can't craft shit because after I cap the turf one of your nerds takes it back 15 minutes later. Currently gangs are to based on players and how much money they have

The turf's can only be capped once per restart already.

And 15 minutes is more than enough when it comes to cartels. If you want them so bad protect your cartel/turf. They are not made to be taken and controlled by 1 guy.

[TheLegend27]

The gang NV and Combat logging is the reason asylum is so dead

[Rodrigo]

Just now, TheLegend27 said:

The gang NV and Combat logging is the reason asylum is so dead

Haha you have no idea how it works do you?

[william]

Just now, Rodrigo said:

Haha you have no idea how it works do you?

don't waste your breath on the new guy, Rod.

[TRYHARD]

Just now, TheLegend27 said:

I'm in a solo gang

You cap cartels but don't fight for them and wonder why bigger gangs take all your shit?

[DankBud]

15 is fine,cause it takes another x amount of time to get to the location to fight(store drugs or guns),Could it be possible to have so when it hit 0% down thats when you lose the perks,since it is in a "neutral" state... so you have 15mins plus the time it takes to get at drug from what ever or where ever you are is about 5 min drive in a hatch faster in heli..Sounds reasonable.

 

thoughts?

[Samus_Aran]

Currently too much time is spent capping/defending cartels.  I think it would be good at 20 to 25 mins + not losing perks until cartel reaches 0%.

Edited November 19, 2017 by Samus_Aran
Typo

[Brutus]

10 hours ago, Samus_Aran said:

Currently too much time is spent capping/defending cartels.  I think it would be good at 20 to 25 mins + not losing perks until cartel reaches 0%.

I think this sums up the mindset of newer players vs. older... Capping and defending cartels was the reason people use to join the server, maybe a fed. Now its a bad thing.

[Jamal]

Apd Evidence locker sounds great now if i got caught doing a bank (which is a 1/100 chance since they always go lethals or we get away) I can just go grab my loadout.

Edited December 30, 2017 by Jamal

[Steve]

On 11/19/2017 at 6:18 PM, Brutus said:

I think this sums up the mindset of newer players vs. older... Capping and defending cartels was the reason people use to join the server, maybe a fed. Now its a bad thing.

I think what he is more referring to is when you cap drug then you go to start your meth run and someone starts to take it afterwards as opposed to fighting the cap when you contested it in the first place.

[Yung Spacegod.]

On 11/19/2017 at 7:18 PM, Brutus said:

I think this sums up the mindset of newer players vs. older... Capping and defending cartels was the reason people use to join the server, maybe a fed. Now its a bad thing.

It use to be that cartels were a need to do thing as a gang cap them all and as soon as it pinged that it was being capped you were instantly gearing up to go fight no questions asked it was the sole reason people were even in gang essentially 

[Jamal]

Just now, Space. said:

It use to be that cartels were a need to do thing as a gang cap them all and as soon as it pinged that it was being capped you were instantly gearing up to go fight no questions asked it was the sole reason people were even in gang essentially 

 

[DankBud]

3 hours ago, Steve said:

I think what he is more referring to is when you cap drug then you go to start your meth run and someone starts to take it afterwards as opposed to fighting the cap when you contested it in the first place.

Yea,it does make it kinda useless when your on your first cook an someone troll caps it just cause they don't like you or your gang....the dirty money staying in reset helped a lot to wanna take it fully an least try to get,but the perk it self shouldn't be lost until they stay the 10 min for it to hit 0%...just seems more fair for all sides new and older players