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s2 vehicle rule


xeL

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Make it against the rules to shed ifrits ON S2 DOMINATION - it's becoming a problem because cops are purposefully shedding vehicles on a server where you're MEANT to use them to fight but still do b/c they are hated at home and pay less for everything so no one will do it back to them!  Why is this a thing on an event server where you're meant to fight with armored vehicles? Cops currently do not log onto SRT to do their factions purpose on the event server, they are there to troll and make it harder on others trying to enjoy their time.

Points for this:

- Most of s2 pop doesn't play s1

- There needs to be a reward for players participating in the event?  I do not understand why people are mad people are getting money in return for winning an event

- Some players make money, some players lose money, blood money is spent and earned as well, this is how dom/conquest works on every server and it circulates the economy

- Average players shouldn't be determining what is too much money, especially those who play a faction that pay less for stuff in game.  Leave it to devs to decide and change the economy on s2 if it's too much.

- It's an event server where armored vehicles are supposed to be used

- Cops aren't competing for points like civilians are.  Cops get paid per flag decapped, while civilians are paid based on their amount of points they earn, as well as cops pay a set amount per death no matter what gear they are using and civilians do not.  Why are civilians being punished and trolled by a faction that has benefits (Paid per decap, cheaper kits, cheaper vehicles as well as vehicles that do NOT transfer to s1 so if they blow up they are cheaper to repurchase)?

- Cops also make money on this event server, while still paying less for gear so I do not understand why they are attempting to control the economy for civilians when they make money as well.  They have no SOPs regarding what gangs or flags they have to target, and are at free will to even cap smaller gangs flags to make money.  This is a flaw, and if cops are going to argue we are making money on this server and the argument is "Cops don't make $ while shedding frits", there is no reason for them to be on the server.  They have the opportunity to make money if they chose to do their factions intended purpose, instead they are purposefully avoiding what their factions purpose is in the event to make it worse gameplay for civilians

- It's a rule to not grief and interfere with admin events or gang fort, why does this not apply as well as it's an event that gets 50-60 players for 2-3 hours multiple days a week (Admins do events to create fun for the community. If you deliberately attempt to ruin or get in the way expect action to be taken at the admins discretion. This falls under the "Don't be a dick" clause.)

- Cop vehicles are cheaper on dom and do NOT transfer over to s1, civilian vehicles do.  Cops are abusing this function to go on s2 and destroy civilian vehicles that transfer over to s1 while not in danger of having anything connected on their side to s1.

- These actions can push away and punish new players from domination as players who are new to s2 and come to try it out will have their vehicles from s1 shedded on an event server when it's meant to be an event where they can freely pvp and use armored vehicles

- Shedding frits brings no positives to domination only negatives and the point of it is to have fun, not be trolled by a faction that has benefits.  If you want to shed frits on s1, go for it but to go on an event server where these vehicles are meant to be used by civilians and are connected to civilian s1 garages is really toxic and ruins the point of the event

 

Solutions:

Solution 1) Make cops pay the same amount for frits and gear as us if this stays, they should not be able to spend less to make others spend more by shedding our frits.  We should be allowed to shed theirs and force them to pay the same amount if they can shed ours.

Solution 2) Make it against the rules for everyone to shed frits

Solution 3) Make blown up vehicles go back to the garage as this is an event server and armored vehicles are meant to be used

Solution 4) Make new SOPs for cops to not shed frits, as civs do not do this as they are actually competing for the win and understand this frustrates people and makes their time worse and don't want to kill the s2 pop as it just started getting pop again.

Solution 5) Have developers or willing players actually look at the numbers on what players earn and spend over a time period and have developers determine if it should be changed and how it should be changed going into the future

Solution 6) Have a separate s2 garage for civilians

Edited by xeL
Destroyer, lukee, Acending and 6 others like this
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20 minutes ago, Jr4life24 said:

Oh no, the server that gangs use to print money is being hindered by 4 cops shedding ifrits

50-75% that play s2 don't even play s1 so your point is invalid.  No one "abuses" the money earned, it is an economy that almost fully stays on s2.  S2 "printed" more money when it was dead because people would farm the base amount.  Those 10-20 people that played when the server was dead actually played s1 so it did hinder the s1 economy.  With 50-60 people on you actually don't farm as much money as in the past!  You're making 300k for 2 hours of your time (If you're not buying frits), and other people lose money already as is without buying frits, and people spend their blood money so the economy is circulated between those that play.  Please stop pushing this retarded agenda that people "print money" still and it kills s1 because most of the s2 pop now a days don't play on s1.  On top of this, there needs to be a reward for winning?  If there was no incentive to play and rewards for winning just shut down the server?  Like what?

Edited by xeL
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30 minutes ago, Jr4life24 said:

Oh no, the server that gangs use to print money is being hindered by 4 cops shedding ifrits

spending 700k of kits to make 1mil at the end of a 2 hour event and having to buy ifrits cause they get shedded isnt necessarily considered printing money

Edited by lukee
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1 hour ago, xeL said:

make it against the rules to shed ifrits ON S2 DOMINATION - it's becoming a problem because cops are purposefully shedding vehicles on a server where you're MEANT to use them to fight but still do b/c they are hated at home and pay less for everything so no one will do it back to them!  Why is this a thing on an event server where you're meant to fight with armored vehicles? Cops have absolutely no real objective on the server and don't do shit to increase enjoyment on it.  They get on and act like retards, feed kills, and shed frits and that is about it.  If u disagree u have mental issues.  

Points for this:

- Most of s2 pop doesn't play s1

- There needs to be a reward for players participating, if not shut down the server

- Some players make money, some players lose money, blood money is spent and earned as well, this circulates the economy

- Players shouldn't be determining what is too much money, especially those who play a faction that pay less for stuff in game.  Leave it to devs to decide and change the economy on s2 if it's too much.

- It's an event server where armored vehicles are supposed to be used

- Cops aren't competing for a win like civs are

- Cops also make money on this event server, while still paying less for gear

 

Solutions:

Solution 1) Make cops pay the same amount for frits and gear as us if this stays, they should not be able to spend less to make others spend more

Solution 2) Make it against the rules for everyone to shed frits

Solution 3) Make blown up vehicles go back to the garage as this is an event server and armored vehicles are meant to be used

Solution 4) Make it an SOP for cops to not shed frits, as civs do not do this as they are actually competing for the win

 

10/10 would support the truth again. Players intentionally grieving others and interfering with the event should be punished. It is against the rules to interfere and grieve admin events, and to interfere with gang fort. The same should apply here.

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10 minutes ago, william said:

me, @Djmon, and demi roze are single handedly reducing the economy. You're welcome @ObiWoki @Patato @Gen. Henry Arnold

You're retarded because most of the players on s2 don't play s1 therefore the 300k profit 4 times a week for 2-3 hours of constant pvping and HAVING to win to ACTUALLY MAKE money affects no one as the same kits are being purchased on s3 over and over.  Congrats on looking like a head bent retard and no one liking you.  To prove my point even more name 25 out of the 50 players that play s2 that also play s1 not including cops who also make $ from dom (Maybe this point would be considered if 50% or more of s2 played s1, which would still only be 25 out of 100+ active players that play s1).

Edited by xeL
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9 minutes ago, xeL said:

You're retarded because most of the players on s2 don't play s1 therefore the 300k profit 4 times a week for 2-3 hours of constant pvping and HAVING to win to ACTUALLY MAKE money affects no one.  Congrats on looking like a head bent retard and no one liking you.  To prove my point even more name 25 out of the 50 players that play s2 that also play s1 not including cops who also make $ from dom (Maybe this point would be considered if 50% or more of s2 played s1, which would still only be 25 out of 100+ active players that play s1).

Calm down. I can barely understand what you are typing.

 

1. cops don’t really make money, only do if they are uncapping. If they’re shedding Frits they’re not making anything.

2. Should be both server wide rule. I think shedding vehicles should be considered an exploit. 

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12 minutes ago, xeL said:

You're retarded because most of the players on s2 don't play s1 therefore the 300k profit 4 times a week for 2-3 hours of constant pvping and HAVING to win to ACTUALLY MAKE money affects no one as the same kits are being purchased on s3 over and over.  Congrats on looking like a head bent retard and no one liking you.  To prove my point even more name 25 out of the 50 players that play s2 that also play s1 not including cops who also make $ from dom (Maybe this point would be considered if 50% or more of s2 played s1, which would still only be 25 out of 100+ active players that play s1).

Red Bull Gamer GIF by The Chiefs Esports Club

Edited by william
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3 minutes ago, Austin M said:

Calm down. I can barely understand what you are typing.

 

1. cops don’t really make money, only do if they are uncapping. If they’re shedding Frits they’re not making anything.

2. Should be both server wide rule. I think shedding vehicles should be considered an exploit. 

What I said makes perfect sense.  Wow, it's almost as if the objective of cops is to uncap flags, not go around and shedding frits?  They would make money if they did what their faction was supposed to do?

2) I agree

2 minutes ago, william said:

<iframe src="https://giphy.com/embed/XFpRtVRZhvOqoUYrZH" width="480" height="480" frameBorder="0" class="giphy-embed" allowFullScreen></iframe><p><a href="https://giphy.com/gifs/ChiefsESC-esports-chiefsesc-chiefs-XFpRtVRZhvOqoUYrZH">via GIPHY</a></p>

embed fail also can't name 25 people proves my point you have a delusional viewpoint of the server

Edited by xeL
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2 hours ago, xeL said:

make it against the rules to shed ifrits ON S2 DOMINATION - it's becoming a problem because cops are purposefully shedding vehicles on a server where you're MEANT to use them to fight but still do b/c they are hated at home and pay less for everything so no one will do it back to them!  Why is this a thing on an event server where you're meant to fight with armored vehicles? Cops have absolutely no real objective on the server and don't do shit to increase enjoyment on it.  They get on and act like retards, feed kills, and shed frits and that is about it.  If u disagree u have mental issues.  

Points for this:

- Most of s2 pop doesn't play s1

- There needs to be a reward for players participating, if not shut down the server

- Some players make money, some players lose money, blood money is spent and earned as well, this circulates the economy

- Players shouldn't be determining what is too much money, especially those who play a faction that pay less for stuff in game.  Leave it to devs to decide and change the economy on s2 if it's too much.

- It's an event server where armored vehicles are supposed to be used

- Cops aren't competing for a win like civs are - Civilians are actually focused on winning, cops just hop on to "control the economy" (Grief other players) and shoot people with their cheaper kits (Keep in mind, cops on s2 have no rules determining who they have to fight so they can just abuse decapping smaller gangs to make $!)

- Cops also make money on this event server, while still paying less for gear so you should not make money either if this is your logic and if no one is making money shut the server down as no one is going to play on something where you spend 3 hours with no reward and just lose money

- It's a rule not not grief and interfere with admin events or gang fort, why does this not apply as well as it's an event that gets 50-60 players for 2-3 hours multiple days a week (Admins do events to create fun for the community. If you deliberately attempt to ruin or get in the way expect action to be taken at the admins discretion. This falls under the "Don't be a dick" clause.)

 

Solutions:

Solution 1) Make cops pay the same amount for frits and gear as us if this stays, they should not be able to spend less to make others spend more by shedding our frits.  We should be allowed to shed theirs and force them to pay the same amount if they can shed ours.

Solution 2) Make it against the rules for everyone to shed frits

Solution 3) Make blown up vehicles go back to the garage as this is an event server and armored vehicles are meant to be used

Solution 4) Make new SOPs for cops to not shed frits, as civs do not do this as they are actually competing for the win and understand this frustrates people and makes their time worse and don't want to kill the s2 pop as it just started getting pop again.

 

Even though everything you're saying makes sense you're asking way too much of this server

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1 minute ago, Invictus said:

Even though everything you're saying makes sense you're asking way too much of this server

Yes asking them to put a rule to stop shedding frits, or ask for cops to add an SOP to not shed frits is so much.  I gave 4 simple solutions, only two out of four which requires actual dev work, one being very minimal as they just change the cop prices on s2 to match civs.

Edited by xeL
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3 hours ago, Junker said:

its almost like there should be policy written for SRT... *cough* @Innate

*cough cough*

 

2 hours ago, Austin M said:

1. cops don’t really make money, only do if they are uncapping. If they’re shedding Frits they’re not making anything.

2. Should be both server wide rule. I think shedding vehicles should be considered an exploit. 

on S1 It is always fun watching your tracked ifrit stop in a shed on the map and them boom, you either see it suddenly vanish from tracking or you watch it blow up as you go to retrieve it. Those things upgraded are well over 100k.

 

As for the general topic all together, yeah it's crappy but its a thing that happens. You giving the SRT officers who participate in this act the attention and it's just gonna make them want to continue doing it. Maybe it will even give the idea to other players, like civ gangs that know they dont do good at dom and decide they wanna troll too.

The only rules that really apply to Dom are sadly just the server rules when it comes to VDM really. Do I think shedding ifrits needs to be completely prohibited, no because it's just a minor inconveniece in a chaos of a server. Do I think other things need to be done to prevent your issue of cops just hopping on SRT purely to fuck around, yes... Will things change to the Dom server though, probably not.

Edited by Repto
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31 minutes ago, Repto said:

Maybe it will even give the idea to other players, like civ gangs that know they dont do good at dom and decide they wanna troll too.

I completely understand where you are coming from, but SRT has a different garage from s1 to s2.  If they lose a vehicle on s2 (which are cheaper than civ vehicles), it has no affect onto their s1 garage.  Civilian vehicles transfer from s1 to s2, civilians are being punished by a faction with MULTIPLE safe guards regarding money being lost.  They have cheaper kits that are paid per death no matter what gear it's the same price every time so if they die attempting to do this it's not that big of a deal and their vehicles are cheaper and s2 locked.

The idea that a faction with multiple safeguards are going onto an EVENT server and directly attempting to cause players frustration and make them lose out on money by shedding their frits while they are safeguarded multiple ways is not good for the server, or fair (Especially when they are not even participating in the event at that point, they are just there to cause annoyances to other players and make them spend more money).

Domination is very fun, it was dead for a while and only used by s1 players to farm money as no one was on, but it's picked up in players a lot and I do not understand why we are trying to kill the domination server again to make it so the 5-10 players that will still play just to farm money for s1 because of the base pot amount and no competition to go against.

Edited by xeL
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3 minutes ago, xeL said:

I completely understand where you are coming from, but SRT has a different garage from s1 to s2.  If they lose a vehicle on s2 (which are cheaper than civ vehicles, by the way), it has no affect onto their s1 garage.  Civilian vehicles transfer from one to the other, civilians are being punished by a faction with MULTIPLE safe guards regarding money being lost.  SRT get paid per flag decap, not points earned by the end of the three hours, they have cheaper kits that are paid per death no matter what gear it's the same price every time, and their vehicles are cheaper and s2 locked.

The idea that a faction with multiple safeguards are going onto an EVENT server and directly attempting to cause players frustration and make them lose out on money by shedding their frits while they are safeguarded multiple ways is not good for the server, or fair (Especially when they are not even participating in the event at that point, they are just there to cause annoyances to other players and make them spend more money).

The APD has been spoonfed for over two years on Asylum and they will keep crying wolf and getting more. That has been made undeniably clear. Don't waste your energy pointing it out.

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5 hours ago, xeL said:

Solution 4) Make new SOPs for cops to not shed frits, as civs do not do this as they are actually competing for the win and understand this frustrates people and makes their time worse and don't want to kill the s2 pop as it just started getting pop again.

 

We are currently working on this, thank you for your suggestion.

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4 hours ago, xeL said:

I completely understand where you are coming from, but SRT has a different garage from s1 to s2.  If they lose a vehicle on s2 (which are cheaper than civ vehicles), it has no affect onto their s1 garage.  Civilian vehicles transfer from s1 to s2, civilians are being punished by a faction with MULTIPLE safe guards regarding money being lost.  They have cheaper kits that are paid per death no matter what gear it's the same price every time so if they die attempting to do this it's not that big of a deal and their vehicles are cheaper and s2 locked.

The idea that a faction with multiple safeguards are going onto an EVENT server and directly attempting to cause players frustration and make them lose out on money by shedding their frits while they are safeguarded multiple ways is not good for the server, or fair (Especially when they are not even participating in the event at that point, they are just there to cause annoyances to other players and make them spend more money).

Domination is very fun, it was dead for a while and only used by s1 players to farm money as no one was on, but it's picked up in players a lot and I do not understand why we are trying to kill the domination server again to make it so the 5-10 players that will still play just to farm money for s1 because of the base pot amount and no competition to go against.

True and I do understand these facts about S2 completely as well as the points you make, I wouldnt be against it if the admins tried to make a rule for it though, I only sometimes play dom on Sundays and barely enjoy it personally. I was moving more to the idea where just like on the S1 server it's not really something that can be to easily regulated and its just gonna happen sadly, it sucks right now that it's something that happens incredibly frequently. I'm sure people have always been shedding ifrits on dom though.

 

I'm glad to see that some cop SoP's may be in the works for the server as its been very overdue but even then I doubt a cop policy will be able to completely out way much when it comes to the servers general separation from a large majority of S1's server rules. More admin regulation/observation would also be great but that is for sure an extra responsibility to expect from them.

If the same cops that do it on SRT cant do it on SRT anymore because of policy they are all just gonna gang on civ to do it most likely.

Edited by Repto
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10 minutes ago, Repto said:

True and I do understand these facts about S2 completely as well as the points you make, I wouldnt be against it if the admins tried to make a rule for it though, I only sometimes play dom on Sundays and barely enjoy it personally. I was moving more to the idea where just like on the S1 server it's not really something that can be to easily regulated and its just gonna happen sadly, it sucks right now that it's something that happens incredibly frequently. I'm sure people have always been shedding ifrits on dom though.

 

I'm glad to see that some cop SoP's may be in the works for the server as its been very overdue but even then I doubt a cop policy will be able to completely out way much when it comes to the servers general separation from a large majority of S1's server rules. More admin regulation/observation would also be great but that is for sure an extra responsibility to expect from them.

If the same cops that do it on SRT cant do it on SRT anymore because of policy they are all just gonna gang on civ to do it most likely.

Would it not be reasonable to suggest this could be handled more effectively with multiple avenues of regulation implemented to mitigate the issue from a holistic approach?

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10 hours ago, xeL said:

Make it against the rules to shed ifrits ON S2 DOMINATION - it's becoming a problem because cops are purposefully shedding vehicles on a server where you're MEANT to use them to fight but still do b/c they are hated at home and pay less for everything so no one will do it back to them!  Why is this a thing on an event server where you're meant to fight with armored vehicles? Cops currently do not log onto SRT to do their factions purpose on the event server, they are there to troll and make it harder on others trying to enjoy their time.

Points for this:

- Most of s2 pop doesn't play s1

- There needs to be a reward for players participating in the event?  I do not understand why people are mad people are getting money in return for winning an event

- Some players make money, some players lose money, blood money is spent and earned as well, this is how dom/conquest works on every server and it circulates the economy

- Average players shouldn't be determining what is too much money, especially those who play a faction that pay less for stuff in game.  Leave it to devs to decide and change the economy on s2 if it's too much.

- It's an event server where armored vehicles are supposed to be used

- Cops aren't competing for points like civilians are.  Cops get paid per flag decapped, while civilians are paid based on their amount of points they earn, as well as cops pay a set amount per death no matter what gear they are using and civilians do not.  Why are civilians being punished and trolled by a faction that has benefits (Paid per decap, cheaper kits, cheaper vehicles as well as vehicles that do NOT transfer to s1 so if they blow up they are cheaper to repurchase)?

- Cops also make money on this event server, while still paying less for gear so I do not understand why they are attempting to control the economy for civilians when they make money as well.  They have no SOPs regarding what gangs or flags they have to target, and are at free will to even cap smaller gangs flags to make money.  This is a flaw, and if cops are going to argue we are making money on this server and the argument is "Cops don't make $ while shedding frits", there is no reason for them to be on the server.  They have the opportunity to make money if they chose to do their factions intended purpose, instead they are purposefully avoiding what their factions purpose is in the event to make it worse gameplay for civilians

- It's a rule to not grief and interfere with admin events or gang fort, why does this not apply as well as it's an event that gets 50-60 players for 2-3 hours multiple days a week (Admins do events to create fun for the community. If you deliberately attempt to ruin or get in the way expect action to be taken at the admins discretion. This falls under the "Don't be a dick" clause.)

- Cop vehicles are cheaper on dom and do NOT transfer over to s1, civilian vehicles do.  Cops are abusing this function to go on s2 and destroy civilian vehicles that transfer over to s1 while not in danger of having anything connected on their side to s1.

- These actions can push away and punish new players from domination as players who are new to s2 and come to try it out will have their vehicles from s1 shedded on an event server when it's meant to be an event where they can freely pvp and use armored vehicles

- Shedding frits brings no positives to domination only negatives and the point of it is to have fun, not be trolled by a faction that has benefits.  If you want to shed frits on s1, go for it but to go on an event server where these vehicles are meant to be used by civilians and are connected to civilian s1 garages is really toxic and ruins the point of the event

 

Solutions:

Solution 1) Make cops pay the same amount for frits and gear as us if this stays, they should not be able to spend less to make others spend more by shedding our frits.  We should be allowed to shed theirs and force them to pay the same amount if they can shed ours.

Solution 2) Make it against the rules for everyone to shed frits

Solution 3) Make blown up vehicles go back to the garage as this is an event server and armored vehicles are meant to be used

Solution 4) Make new SOPs for cops to not shed frits, as civs do not do this as they are actually competing for the win and understand this frustrates people and makes their time worse and don't want to kill the s2 pop as it just started getting pop again.

Solution 5) Have developers or willing players actually look at the numbers on what players earn and spend over a time period and have developers determine if it should be changed and how it should be changed going into the future

Solution 6) Have a separate s2 garage for civilians

You Cannot Kill me in a way that matters

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8 minutes ago, operatorjohnny^ said:

Anyone that think dom still "prints" money is out of their mind. S2 money 90% of the time stays on S2 and you make 300-400k if you go positive and don't have to buy any ifrits. If you don't go lioke 30K/30D and buy an ifrit you make like 200k after 2 hours. 

^^^

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1 hour ago, william said:

Fuck off you gotta ruin everything, my union rep @Michael L will be in touch

No worries dude just get on civ, buy hatchbacks and carry on doing it anyway. APD policy update extending their "authority" to s2 will solve this issue from ever happening again I am sure

Spoiler

the answer you are looking for is server rules update, not APD policy update and relying on the often useless APD staff to not overreach, there is good reason why the "roleplay faction"'s rules don't apply to s2. Let's not kill off another playing opportunity for cops who are already having enough troubles getting numbers on as it is these days?

 

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4 hours ago, Michael L said:

No worries dude just get on civ, buy hatchbacks and carry on doing it anyway. APD policy update extending their "authority" to s2 will solve this issue from ever happening again I am sure

  Hide contents

the answer you are looking for is server rules update, not APD policy update and relying on the often useless APD staff to not overreach, there is good reason why the "roleplay faction"'s rules don't apply to s2. Let's not kill off another playing opportunity for cops who are already having enough troubles getting numbers on as it is these days?

 

You are concerned about a ROLEPLAY FACTION playing a role that has NO productive purpose on a server that has NO ROLEPLAY. Not only that, you are suggesting they have no internal rule structure or accountability that's kinda crazy bro js thank god you are not an APD Captain sheeeeeeesh

Edited by /|/|0T4RD
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35 minutes ago, /|/|0T4RD said:

You are concerned about a ROLEPLAY FACTION playing a role that has NO productive purpose on a server that has NO ROLEPLAY. Not only that, you are suggesting they have no internal rule structure or accountability that's kinda crazy bro js thank god you are not an APD Captain sheeeeeeesh

Are you okay?

S2 was decided by previous captains to not be really part of the apd. Why make them follow a policy on a sever meant to just fight? If the concern is SRT shedding Frits they can do the same on civ as GPM stated.

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57 minutes ago, Austin M said:

Why make them follow a policy on a sever meant to just fight?

Why not exercise the limited authority you do have to mitigate the issue? I agree if you are suggesting to let the admins make a rule against it. However, there is no guarantee they will, and if they are, we do not know how long it would take them to decide if or when. Why not just take the limited action available to prevent further grievance of other players in the meantime? We can sit here and debate what ifs forever, but is unproductive if there is no immediate solution.

Edited by /|/|0T4RD
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3 minutes ago, /|/|0T4RD said:

Why not exercise the limited authority you do have to mitigate the issue? I agree if you are suggesting to let the admins make a rule against it. However, there is no guarantee they will, and if they are, we do not know how long it would take them to decide if or when. Why not just take the limited action available to prevent further grievance of other players in the meantime? We can sit here and debate what ifs forever, but is unproductive if there is no immediate solution.

Why not exercise the ability to stop inviting cheaters into your gang constantly? Maybe then you wouldn't be perm banned in the first place and be forced to spectate all the doms from discord. We are doing our civil duties in shedding all the ifrits driven by YOUR cheaters!!! My union reps @Michael L and @william will keep practicing our god given rights!!

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