Reporting system needs streamlining

[Haych]

1 hour ago, Gnashes said:

  and another handful who just kind of.... exist.

Admins don't really get removed for inactivity though, so

Precisely the issue. @Olio and @Volunteer281 need to look into that. Way to many moderators literally stop doing work as soon as they get Admin because why bother. You don't get removed, you've already become Admin. Just sit back and reap off the benefits of being Admin while literally doing fuck all for the community. Great system tbh. 

Isn't the benefits of being Admin your reward for your volunteer work? then why do people who don't do anything still get these said 'benefits'?

Edited December 31, 2016 by Haych

[Sneaky]

17 minutes ago, Haych said:

Precisely the issue. @Olio and @Volunteer281 need to look into that. Way to many moderators literally stop doing work as soon as they get Admin because why bother. You don't get removed, you've already become Admin. Just sit back and reap off the benefits of being Admin while literally doing fuck all for the community. Great system tbh. 

Isn't the benefits of being Admin your reward for your volunteer work? then why do people who don't do anything still get these said 'benefits'?

A mystery for the ages!

[bigjohn561]

@Google™ wait a min u got banned for shooting a cop that said APD! Leave the HQ? But that give the cops grounds to down u restrain u and charge u. So I DONT see how that's rdm that you shot him after he yelled that 2 you.

[Google™]

Just now, bigjohn561 said:

@Google™ wait a min u got banned for shooting a cop that said APD! Leave the HQ? But that give the cops grounds to down u restrain u and charge u. So I DONT see how that's rdm that you shot him after he yelled that 2 you.

Apparently it doesn't... and if they do that it's RDM... 

[Haych]

1 hour ago, Google™ said:

I've been banned for shooting a man who said "APD, Leave the HQ" so I shot him and that was RDM I understand that. I report someone for practically doing the same to me, no hostile initiation, and he gets "No Action Taken"... They don't need to be stricter on bans.

'Stricter on bans' as in not unbanning someone just because they said sorry after clearly breaking a rule. Let them sit out the 24/48hr ban and learn from their mistakes.

Your issue is another one in its own that is something that also need to be addressed. Admins viewing the rules differently to each other, a example being the Cartel RDM drama. Every admin will say something different regarding pretty much every rule. 

 

[Google™]

Just now, Haych said:

'Stricter on bans' as in not unbanning someone just because they said sorry after clearly breaking a rule. Let them sit out the 24/48hr ban and learn from their mistakes.

Your issue is another one in its own that is something that also need to be addressed. Admins viewing the rules differently to each other, a example being the Cartel RDM drama. Every admin will say something different regarding pretty much every rule. 

 

They involve their opinions and views on the rules, and don't just ban based on the rules but on their opinions to and etc. 

[Gatorade]

Dunno rules have seem to work fine for the last 3 years. Those who enforced them maybe not as much, but majorily a pretty good area of asylum

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Gnashes said:

Except that you don't have the entire staff of Admins regularly being on. You have those who actually super actively do things, those who do things when their personal lives allow it,  and another handful who just kind of.... exist.

 

Admins don't really get removed for inactivity though, so

 

1 hour ago, Haych said:

Precisely the issue. @Olio and @Volunteer281 need to look into that. Way to many moderators literally stop doing work as soon as they get Admin because why bother. You don't get removed, you've already become Admin. Just sit back and reap off the benefits of being Admin while literally doing fuck all for the community. Great system tbh. 

Isn't the benefits of being Admin your reward for your volunteer work? then why do people who don't do anything still get these said 'benefits'?

Actually ever since me and Vol took over and even before I became CM, I pushed a lot about activity, I even created a retirement program where those that did not want to participate but still wanted to be a part of the group could still do so without Admin Duties or Tools/Perks. I can not speak for Volunteer but I check activity and talk with individual admins about their level of activity and give them chances to either become active or switch to retired. The goal is to be an active admin team but also not make this position which we all know is unpaid still viable to still have a life and enjoy gaming which is why we are all here. Through this process we have had several admins step down to the retirement program. This program is a valuable tool to our admin team and community as it still makes them available for ideas and suggestions. 

[Eric916]

On 12/29/2016 at 11:06 PM, BaDaBiNg_10-8 said:

Check the logs? Because someone is shown downing you or killing you is not evidence for a player report of a server violation. The Admin team does a lot you don't see, I ban alone ban anywhere from 7 to 10 people a day by just playing under an alias and watching people. We can't help you unless you help your self, make a report with evidence, and stop making excuses. 

good point. @Gavir if you don't want to deal with RDMrs. Record and Report. It's not the admins job to hold your hand the entire time you play. Like badabing said take responsibility and record and report yourself. And admins are in-game all the time btw.

[Boris]

I know a certain inactive admin is likely to be coming back after Christmas.

A certain lovable P3 fella.

[Gatorade]

26 minutes ago, Boris said:

I know a certain inactive admin is likely to be coming back after Christmas.

A certain lovable P3 fella.

Hey good thing christmas was over last week!

[william]

1 hour ago, Olio said:

 

Actually ever since me and Vol took over and even before I became CM, I pushed a lot about activity, I even created a retirement program where those that did not want to participate but still wanted to be a part of the group could still do so without Admin Duties or Tools/Perks. I can not speak for Volunteer but I check activity and talk with individual admins about their level of activity and give them chances to either become active or switch to retired. The goal is to be an active admin team but also not make this position which we all know is unpaid still viable to still have a life and enjoy gaming which is why we are all here. Through this process we have had several admins step down to the retirement program. This program is a valuable tool to our admin team and community as it still makes them available for ideas and suggestions. 

Volunteer is a sound guy but fuck me he is a pointless CM, he doesn't lift a finger, never has since I've been here

 

There should be more stricter requirements on Admin duties

Edited December 31, 2016 by william

[Henry Facesmasher]

2 hours ago, Google™ said:

I've been banned for shooting a man who said "APD, Leave the HQ" so I shot him and that was RDM I understand that. I report someone for practically doing the same to me, no hostile initiation, and he gets "No Action Taken"... They don't need to be stricter on bans.

LOL wrekt

To be fair I was perm'd for killing a guy 349 meters outside chop

Edited December 31, 2016 by Henry Facesmasher

[Smee]

On 12/30/2016 at 7:15 AM, Sean That Irish Guy said:

 I recommend using this , so much cheaper and has great reviews.

[Volunteer281]

1 hour ago, william said:

Volunteer is a sound guy but fuck me he is a pointless CM, he doesn't lift a finger, never has since I've been here

 

There should be more stricter requirements on Admin duties

Spicy

[Haych]

2 hours ago, william said:

Volunteer is a sound guy but fuck me he is a pointless CM, he doesn't lift a finger, never has since I've been here

 

There should be more stricter requirements on Admin duties

Motown or Volunteer, I wonder which ones lifted more fingers 

[...]

I do not think the problem is the reporting process, but the length of bans each admin gives out is a problem since it seems to be inconsistent. The inconsistency comes from the play of emotions into situations, however circumstances to rule breaking are always different. An additional problem that is being overlooked is the ability for admins to ban on the spot while playing. Admins should give out bans while they are not in the heat of the moment in order to better view the situation objectively. Of course there are some bans that can be given out in the heat of the moment, like racism and micspamming during server restart, but RDM, Lagswitching, Exploiting, etc. should be sorted out after the fact. Admins should have to file reports on rule breaking that happens to them while playing, so a different admin (who wasn't part of the situation) could look at the situation objectively.

[GraduateArc8298]

On 12/30/2016 at 0:55 AM, Gavir said:

At present, the report system is slow, clunky, and only really catches repeat offenders, admins appear too lazy when they're on to check logs and go to the few cases it appears to be and deal with what they can, instead sitting around TS or just generally ignoring player reports. I have gotten the excuse of "Oh we can't check voice logs" and "Get Shadowplay" when you shouldn't require a third party software entirely for standard play in a public server, it just doesn't work nor does it appeal to legitimate players. I'm definitely not the first person to bring this up, and I better not get a flat "The system is staying as it is, too bad" kind of reply. I want to hear a constructive argument as to how the way the current repot system is set up is somehow beneficial to the general population of the server.

 

 

 

If you take video proof there should be no gripes, in the end, hard evidence is the best route. Also, do you have any idea how much of a headache it is to dig up such specific logs? If everyone asked to pull them up the admins would certainly do a backflip off a highrise building, while cursing the firstborn child of all Asylum players.

EDIT: all of them, hand in hand. It would be like one of those freeze-frame moments from a cheesy sitcom, except more death....and cat memes for commemoration.

Edited January 1, 2017 by GraduateArc8298

[Ghostshot]

hey guys I got you Bump  

[bigjohn561]

Bump

[HotWings]

16 hours ago, Henry Facesmasher said:

LOL wrekt

To be fair I was perm'd for killing a guy 349 meters outside chop

I got permed for authorizing lethals on a red admin. "You cant just shoot people because they're red" he says.

[Tiefman]

@Gnashes idk man, between the constant "action taken" and seeing them the next day as people here on this thread complain about and the stupidly complex reporting system it really isnt worth peoples time to report the small things like rdm and vdm, the things that ruin the serv

[Silver-Spy]

First of all you should know that an admin is a very time consuming rank.You dont get to play that much and enjoy and almost all your time is spent solving reports on forums and people exploiting or rdming ingame.Yet you ask them to do more?

.Do you have any idea how long it takes to check up logs and then talk to people in teamspeak about it?.The system is running well and i hope it keeps running.You should be able to record someone and report or else dont talk about admins being active or not.When you help reporting someone you not only benifit yourself but you help the community itself in general.Seeing banned people again is something i am not sure off but what i know is that admins work harder than even you can.

So be grateful. 

[Sheriff Rick Grimes]

23 hours ago, Google™ said:

I've been banned for shooting a man who said "APD, Leave the HQ" so I shot him and that was RDM I understand that. I report someone for practically doing the same to me, no hostile initiation, and he gets "No Action Taken"... They don't need to be stricter on bans.

 

There is the issue of admins not being consistent.  I've seen people banned when for example cops had sirens on, got out of their car and then got killed and the guy got banned shortly after that.  Or just simply how one admin will ban you for something and the other will not. 

[bamf]

There seems to be a lot of confusion around what "action taken" actually means, so let me clear that up for everyone. Action taken can mean a ban (of variable length), an account wipe, or that we have spoken to the person. 

It is understandable that when you are wronged by another player (whether perceived or in actuality), that you want that player to pay for what they've done to you. "Enjoy your ban" is something we all see in side chat constantly. You want your reciprocity to be handled swiftly, and hopefully where you can see the ban message and then make some witty quip like "get rekt kid" once that person is ejected from the server. It's satisfying to see justice done right there on the spot. 

The problem with that mentality is that most bans can not be handled immediately. Further, the staff here can not watch 510 potential players 24x7 (for many reasons, not the least of which is that there are less than 30 people who handle that type of activity for the servers). Even if we could watch everyone in realtime, you would be asking the staff to look at voice, chat, text messaging, and group initiation parameters that frankly are too cumbersome to look at in the manner in which you describe in your posts (in real time that is). 

So with that being established, we have to have some form of reporting system in place. We do ask the person being harmed to report the issue. Give us the pertinent information, and we will track it down and look into the situation. After all, you were wronged - helping us help you goes a long way to try to ensure that it doesn't happen to you again. 

And on the topic of it not happening to you again, we do try to do that. The "action taken" you see in your report is us letting you know that we saw your report, agreed with you, and have taken time to try to correct the behavior of the player in question who wronged you. You see the Asylum in Gaming Asylum doesn't stand for an insane asylum (although we all know it feels that way at times). Asylum in this case refers to a sanctuary where you can be assured that we don't have admins who fly off the handle and ban people with no justification. We want our servers to be a safe haven for people to come and play, and to know that there are adults calling the shots - hopefully to the betterment of everyone involved. 

Do we always get it right?  No, we are human. Just like the players on the server. We will make mistakes, but hopefully not the same ones over and over again. But as humans, we recognize that players make mistakes and we want them to have 2nd chances as well. So "action taken" may mean we spoke to the player and told them their behavior was not acceptable. If you do that again you will be banned. 

So when you complain about the system we have here, please try to remember that we have thousands of distinct players each day. We want to treat all of them the same way you would want to be treated. Fairly and with respect. 

[Sneaky]

22 hours ago, Boris said:

I know a certain inactive admin is likely to be coming back after Christmas.

A certain lovable P3 fella.

WHOWHOWHOWHOO

[Jigawatt]

@Gavir if I remember correctly you came into TS complaining about RDM that was not even happening to you. You saw another player get killed without being told anything.

I told you then, the player could be getting texted or be in a private phone call with the player. Arma does not have the ability to log voice channels.

With that in mind, as many others have said and too repeat what I told you then. Record and report and we will do the very best we can to make amends to the player wronged, not to the random guy trying to report others when they are not part of the event in question.

[Legit]

46 minutes ago, Jigawatt said:

 

In all honesty the only problem I see with the current problem is how easy it could be to get somebody falsely banned. Hiding your name and evidence does in some way prevent drama and harassment, but it also opens up a massive room for abuse. You could easily hide a players initiation and bait him to kill you, then you simply upload and report. With many players using shadowplay the only real way to know when you should save that 10 minute clip is when you see the "RDM?" Message in sidechat. Even with recording 24/7 it could still be very hard to know what specific situation you were banned from without getting a name or at the very least the evidence. 

This room for abuse is very concerning as had somebody answered the question "No" a friend of mine would be permanently banned off edited footage. 

The only way I can see to fix this is to require proof that you contacted the defendant before making the report.

Edited January 1, 2017 by Legit

[₴avagє]

1 hour ago, bamf said:

There seems to be a lot of confusion around what "action taken" actually means, so let me clear that up for everyone. Action taken can mean a ban (of variable length), an account wipe, or that we have spoken to the person. 

It is understandable that when you are wronged by another player (whether perceived or in actuality), that you want that player to pay for what they've done to you. "Enjoy your ban" is something we all see in side chat constantly. You want your reciprocity to be handled swiftly, and hopefully where you can see the ban message and then make some witty quip like "get rekt kid" once that person is ejected from the server. It's satisfying to see justice done right there on the spot. 

The problem with that mentality is that most bans can not be handled immediately. Further, the staff here can not watch 510 potential players 24x7 (for many reasons, not the least of which is that there are less than 30 people who handle that type of activity for the servers). Even if we could watch everyone in realtime, you would be asking the staff to look at voice, chat, text messaging, and group initiation parameters that frankly are too cumbersome to look at in the manner in which you describe in your posts (in real time that is). 

So with that being established, we have to have some form of reporting system in place. We do ask the person being harmed to report the issue. Give us the pertinent information, and we will track it down and look into the situation. After all, you were wronged - helping us help you goes a long way to try to ensure that it doesn't happen to you again. 

And on the topic of it not happening to you again, we do try to do that. The "action taken" you see in your report is us letting you know that we saw your report, agreed with you, and have taken time to try to correct the behavior of the player in question who wronged you. You see the Asylum in Gaming Asylum doesn't stand for an insane asylum (although we all know it feels that way at times). Asylum in this case refers to a sanctuary where you can be assured that we don't have admins who fly off the handle and ban people with no justification. We want our servers to be a safe haven for people to come and play, and to know that there are adults calling the shots - hopefully to the betterment of everyone involved. 

Do we always get it right?  No, we are human. Just like the players on the server. We will make mistakes, but hopefully not the same ones over and over again. But as humans, we recognize that players make mistakes and we want them to have 2nd chances as well. So "action taken" may mean we spoke to the player and told them their behavior was not acceptable. If you do that again you will be banned. 

So when you complain about the system we have here, please try to remember that we have thousands of distinct players each day. We want to treat all of them the same way you would want to be treated. Fairly and with respect. 

enjoy your ban

[Guest]

To also touch on what Bamf said the point behind our bans are not as much as punishment but to change behaviors that's why we start small with the first offense. We use this chance for the admins to talk with the player and go over the rules the broke one on one to make sure they understand. The bans then increase after that as man of you know. We work to change a behavior and if an admin feels the person learned their lesson they are free to lift it early. We keep notes on accounts, keep records of all bans etc. We have made some adjustments on how we handle combat loggers as this has been issue even more now that the servers are all full once again with new players.

As for the process, it's not needed to change, the format helps us speed up the process and make sure we get the appropriate information.

[Sheriff Rick Grimes]

Just now, Olio said:

To also touch on what Bamf said the point behind our bans are not as much as punishment but to change behaviors that's why we start small with the first offense. We use this chance for the admins to talk with the player and go over the rules the broke one on one to make sure they understand. The bans then increase after that as man of you know. We work to change a behavior and if an admin feels the person learned their lesson they are free to lift it early. We keep notes on accounts, keep records of all bans etc. We have made some adjustments on how we handle combat loggers as this has been issue even more now that the servers are all full once again with new players.

As for the process, it's not needed to change, the format helps us speed up the process and make sure we get the appropriate information.

 

Except that's the problem, I can't even tell you how many times people got banned, went to an admin and got unbanned and then did the exact thing.  Some people even laugh it off and say shit like "See you in three days" because they aren't afraid of the repercussions what so ever.  

[Dredge]

2 minutes ago, Sheriff Rick Grimes said:

 

Except that's the problem, I can't even tell you how many times people got banned, went to an admin and got unbanned and then did the exact thing.  Some people even laugh it off and say shit like "See you in three days" because they aren't afraid of the repercussions what so ever.  

That is why we put notes on accounts. If we see them popping up again for the same thing right after a ban is lifted, the time in increased and the chances of a lift are severely decreased. 

[Guest]

So let me ask this.....as the community what do you feel are fair ban timelines!

[they took the name eazy]

23 hours ago, william said:

Volunteer is a sound guy but fuck me he is a pointless CM, he doesn't lift a finger, never has since I've been here

 

There should be more stricter requirements on Admin duties

Wrong, Vol gave me a warning point for derailing, he does do some stuff i guess

Edited January 1, 2017 by Eazy

[they took the name eazy]

Just now, Olio said:

So let me ask this.....as the community what do you feel are fair ban timelines!

Community Ban

[Tusken Raider]

Just now, Olio said:

So let me ask this.....as the community what do you feel are fair ban timelines!

24 hours, 5 days, 3 weeks, perm. Every year of no ban in the category previously banned for you receive 1 punishment rolled back. 

Ex: banned twice in a year for rdm then go a year without being banned for rdm you would get 5 days instead of 3 weeks for that case.

[Sheriff Rick Grimes]

8 minutes ago, Olio said:

So let me ask this.....as the community what do you feel are fair ban timelines!

 

It's making sure those bans aren't being lifted because someone is sorry they got caught.  But combat logging bans should be much harsher.

[Volunteer281]

2 minutes ago, Eazy said:

Wrong, Vol gave me a warning point for derailing, he does do some stuff i guess

meh, I give this post a  William still has you beat.

[they took the name eazy]

1 minute ago, Volunteer281 said:

meh, I give this post a  William still has you beat.

I cant be toxic, i will get modque

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, Tusken Raider said:

24 hours, 5 days, 3 weeks, perm. Every year of no ban in the category previously banned for you receive 1 punishment rolled back. 

Ex: banned twice in a year for rdm then go a year without being banned for rdm you would get 5 days instead of 3 weeks for that case.

Issue with 24 hour bans is by the time we ban them they may not return for a few days, and not even know they received a ban.

8 minutes ago, Sheriff Rick Grimes said:

 

It's making sure those bans aren't being lifted because someone is sorry they got caught.  But combat logging bans should be much harsher.

We increased initial bans for CL the main issue here is the player may not come back for several days maybe not until the following weekend and again not realize they were banned.