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APD Change Proposal


APD Armor change  

197 members have voted

  1. 1. Should this Madrid be added?

    • Yes and Civs can lockpick and use it.
      94
    • Yes, Civs CANNOT use it, but will be rewarded with money upon destroying it
      37
    • No
      66


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4 minutes ago, Yuki Hayami said:

Most dont. I have an idea how to but still get ripped out.

I mean this is kinda off topic but they don’t teach you to protect your glass in swat training. If they teach officers at each event they will have a better chance at getting close to succeeding

Edited by Master27411
Blake. and Yuki Hayami like this
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tbh the amount of armor we have now is fair. I think an APC would more or less give cops a free 10 man push and most rebel groups don't put enough people on first floor to counter that amount of people. The other thing is the limitation of captain+ would make it rarely used and for that reason I think it's too powerful and too much of a luck thing for rebels. You'd have to hope a captain doesn't log on and drop a fuckload of cops on drill right away.

Also from reading the points other people wrote this honestly wouldn't do much to help cops in the first place. most rebels could probably kill the driver and 2 or 3 wheels before the thing reaches construction

Edited by Niklaus
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1 hour ago, Niklaus said:

tbh the amount of armor we have now is fair. I think an APC would more or less give cops a free 10 man push and most rebel groups don't put enough people on first floor to counter that amount of people. The other thing is the limitation of captain+ would make it rarely used and for that reason I think it's too powerful and too much of a luck thing for rebels. You'd have to hope a captain doesn't log on and drop a fuckload of cops on drill right away.

Also from reading the points other people wrote this honestly wouldn't do much to help cops in the first place. most rebels could probably kill the driver and 2 or 3 wheels before the thing reaches construction

FarmersVille will kill the cops b4 they can even get in it.... FSE ON TOP! (VDM is also a very useful strategy, but is not recommended)

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Fought against it at a Prison and Pyrgos Bank, the vehicle isn't as big and scary as everyone thinks it is and it does what its meant to do by getting the cops to the event it does a good job. That being said once the vehicle gets there it turns into a slaughter it doesn't make the cops invulnerable it just adds a new aspect that we don't have right now and its pretty cool. That being said it took 1 rocket to blow the vehicles up and whilst backing up into the prison we ripped 3 out from the glass on the back sides the only thing that people wont like is the driver which can also still be shot out, while driving around the bank I shot Leady who was driving and he was down to about 1 shot, hard not impossible overall would be a good addition for something we don't have right now

Edited by Ryan.
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Had the pleasure of fighting the Madrid tonight. (Yay for testing) 

Its super easy to deal with for the following reasons; 

1. Tires stupid easy to shoot / damage.

2. Back window lets you kill everyone being transported in the Madrid.

3. A hunter or Ifrit can easily flip it over. 

After fighting it at a bank and a prison I vote give it to the APD. Not like the captains / swat are actually going to use it. 

Edited by Psycosis
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Aight after a few hours of seeing this dogshit vehicle in action, my opinion on it is pretty simple. 

- Very slow and sluggish

- Driver is invincible ( rule can be made about being disabled driver has to get out, keep in mind only captains can pull it)

- Very 1 dimensional for federal events, not very mobile once it gets close quarters, 8/10 people drop out in one spot and can easily be camped / prefired.

- Wheels were being disabled in less than mag or two 

- All in all I think it's a cool idea unfortunate arma doesn't have more vehicles to choose from.

- Give it a chance, worst case scenario they remove it, the only way you can tell if its going to be a bad idea is putting it in and giving it real playtime testing. None of this dev server testing or hidden testing with only admins, Get real rebels real normal civs and cops fighting these events they will be at and play test it.

Policies will need to be put into place forsure about usages of it but +1 

 

 

@Mitch (IFRIT) @Leady @Mason @RoguePilot @DarkKnight@Rafael.

Edited by Jayshawn
Yuki Hayami, Copa, Sjuol and 7 others like this
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If it makes federal events harder, then you're really just screwing newer players and increasing the skill gap, and the skill gap for new players is the biggest problem with Asylum.  Idk if it's the greatest idea to cater game balance around a few select gangs of spergs who spam bank and prison

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Assuming it's balanced why should it be a Captain only thing? Do they not have enough exclusive toys to make them feel special? Add it to SWAT or give LT.s the ability to spawn it if it's added. Also should be able to be driven by civs and have the option to be destroyed so cops can't just full send it in 

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I don't think it would be very useful, too slow, too inconvenient, too much controversy. 

Only thing I could see this being useful for is dropping people off at separate locations, but the speed limits you and hatchbacks work perfectly fine.

As soon as the officers decamp, they will be sprayed down instantly. This vehicle would just be a cool show of force, but not practical in combat when it comes to slamming. Particularly in bank, if you slammed the front you would instantly be mowed down from unreachable or shit rock. 

 

Personally, rather than the madrid, we need something to combat the 1:20 minute smash and grabs. Too broken, cops can't respond unless the are AT the fed. 

Edited by Bherky
Copa, Good Lub, Yuki Hayami and 2 others like this
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1 hour ago, Bherky said:

I don't think it would be very useful, too slow, too inconvenient, too much controversy. 

Only thing I could see this being useful for is dropping people off at separate locations, but the speed limits you and hatchbacks work perfectly fine.

As soon as the officers decamp, they will be sprayed down instantly. This vehicle would just be a cool show of force, but not practical in combat when it comes to slamming. Particularly in bank, if you slammed the front you would instantly be mowed down from unreachable or shit rock. 

 

Personally, rather than the madrid, we need something to combat the 1:20 minute smash and grabs. Too broken, cops can't respond unless the are AT the fed. 

With a mix of smokes and not being dumb it is easy to deliver dudes to a spot on bank.  We did have 3 dudes shot out on our first push last night as well.  So it is not as crazy as people think.  It is a tool, a fun tool, and it just changes the dynamics of some fights.  Really no reason not to allow the APD to use it.  No competent gang is going to let this really make all that much of a difference, but at least some of the cops get to feel like they actually made it to the fight instead of being ripped out of a hatch just after first ATM.  

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If you can get shot out of it thru the glass,don't see much of a issue here with it being a thing for cops if only captains can pull it an only one at a time.

 The issue with cops not making it bank is,well,the cops,most times its them going in one at a time/only a couple in a hatch an them yelling at one another on how much this an that person sucks/shitter,if the cops could manage to not be at one anothers necks the whole fight im pretty confident that they could win more events.Shit some of them don't even try they just go an die once or twice an don't come back.

 There is maybe like 1-2 groups that work well on cop together.

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4 hours ago, pigxd said:

you don't kill the cops you kidnap us and torture us

Welcome to Arma 3 Asylum, the entire server does that bud

4 hours ago, Good Lub said:

if this is added then the next step should be this 

 

Who are you?

6 hours ago, Joshhh said:

Can some of the shitter gangs get them aswell? They really struggle to push much like the APD so I think they also need a helping hand. 

what gangs are u even speaking about? 

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As Jay said it could use more practical testing on the live server with gangs organically doing the federal events with the cops using this. However I recommend some restrictions in place if it is implemented to limit how easily the police can use this. These limits should be followed and considered black and white to prevent bullshit problems that would otherwise come with this change. These are just ideas and I would like to hear other peoples thoughts on the matter.

  • There should be a certain amount of rebels doing each event this is pulled for. I.e 10 rebels at the fed, 6 at the bank, 6 at the prison etc. I would argue that this should not be pulled at all for the evidence lockup as that is hard enough as is.
  • On the way over to whatever federal event they are going to, the vehicle has to be completely full, that way the cops can't zerg with 5 cops in the madrid and 5+ other hunters/striders, unless they have the numbers to do so, meaning they have 10 in the madrid already and then other cops in armor. That situation would be quite rare I think.
  • The rank of captain could be the only cop allowed to drive it under any circumstances regardless of the situation, if the captain gets shot out tough luck hopefully they have another captain inside the vehicle.

Now, speaking about whether or not it is actually impenetrable by a .50 cal definitely needs to get looked at. @John Lemmon demonstrated that could prove to be problematic.

I am for this change, however only under the circumstances that it's use by the cops and the circumstances it is used in are very carefully kept in check. I would also like to add that civilians should get the ability to steal it, if the cops are gonna use it then they should be prepared to deal with the chaos that comes with losing it for the remainder of that restart or until they get it back.

Abu Hajaar, ron., Blake. and 3 others like this
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5 minutes ago, Steve said:

As Jay said it could use more practical testing on the live server with gangs organically doing the federal events with the cops using this. However I recommend some restrictions in place if it is implemented to limit how easily the police can use this. These limits should be followed and considered black and white to prevent bullshit problems that would otherwise come with this change. These are just ideas and I would like to hear other peoples thoughts on the matter.

  • There should be a certain amount of rebels doing each event this is pulled for. I.e 10 rebels at the fed, 6 at the bank, 6 at the prison etc. I would argue that this should not be pulled at all for the evidence lockup as that is hard enough as is.
  • On the way over to whatever federal event they are going to, the vehicle has to be completely full, that way the cops can't zerg with 5 cops in the madrid and 5+ other hunters/striders, unless they have the numbers to do so, meaning they have 10 in the madrid already and then other cops in armor. That situation would be quite rare I think.
  • The rank of captain could be the only cop allowed to drive it under any circumstances regardless of the situation, if the captain gets shot out tough luck hopefully they have another captain inside the vehicle.

Now, speaking about whether or not it is actually impenetrable by a .50 cal definitely needs to get looked at. @John Lemmon demonstrated that could prove to be problematic.

I am for this change, however only under the circumstances that it's use by the cops and the circumstances it is used in are very carefully kept in check. I would also like to add that civilians should get the ability to steal it, if the cops are gonna use it then they should be prepared to deal with the chaos that comes with losing it for the remainder of that restart or until they get it back.

+1

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6 hours ago, Steve said:

As Jay said it could use more practical testing on the live server with gangs organically doing the federal events with the cops using this. However I recommend some restrictions in place if it is implemented to limit how easily the police can use this. These limits should be followed and considered black and white to prevent bullshit problems that would otherwise come with this change. These are just ideas and I would like to hear other peoples thoughts on the matter.

  • There should be a certain amount of rebels doing each event this is pulled for. I.e 10 rebels at the fed, 6 at the bank, 6 at the prison etc. I would argue that this should not be pulled at all for the evidence lockup as that is hard enough as is.
  • On the way over to whatever federal event they are going to, the vehicle has to be completely full, that way the cops can't zerg with 5 cops in the madrid and 5+ other hunters/striders, unless they have the numbers to do so, meaning they have 10 in the madrid already and then other cops in armor. That situation would be quite rare I think.
  • The rank of captain could be the only cop allowed to drive it under any circumstances regardless of the situation, if the captain gets shot out tough luck hopefully they have another captain inside the vehicle.

Now, speaking about whether or not it is actually impenetrable by a .50 cal definitely needs to get looked at. @John Lemmon demonstrated that could prove to be problematic.

I am for this change, however only under the circumstances that it's use by the cops and the circumstances it is used in are very carefully kept in check. I would also like to add that civilians should get the ability to steal it, if the cops are gonna use it then they should be prepared to deal with the chaos that comes with losing it for the remainder of that restart or until they get it back.

Message to anyone who reads this whole thing, get a fucking grip 

you as well Steven nobody wants to read your novel

Steve likes this
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8 hours ago, Steve said:

As Jay said it could use more practical testing on the live server with gangs organically doing the federal events with the cops using this. However I recommend some restrictions in place if it is implemented to limit how easily the police can use this. These limits should be followed and considered black and white to prevent bullshit problems that would otherwise come with this change. These are just ideas and I would like to hear other peoples thoughts on the matter.

  • There should be a certain amount of rebels doing each event this is pulled for. I.e 10 rebels at the fed, 6 at the bank, 6 at the prison etc. I would argue that this should not be pulled at all for the evidence lockup as that is hard enough as is.
  • On the way over to whatever federal event they are going to, the vehicle has to be completely full, that way the cops can't zerg with 5 cops in the madrid and 5+ other hunters/striders, unless they have the numbers to do so, meaning they have 10 in the madrid already and then other cops in armor. That situation would be quite rare I think.
  • The rank of captain could be the only cop allowed to drive it under any circumstances regardless of the situation, if the captain gets shot out tough luck hopefully they have another captain inside the vehicle.

Now, speaking about whether or not it is actually impenetrable by a .50 cal definitely needs to get looked at. @John Lemmon demonstrated that could prove to be problematic.

I am for this change, however only under the circumstances that it's use by the cops and the circumstances it is used in are very carefully kept in check. I would also like to add that civilians should get the ability to steal it, if the cops are gonna use it then they should be prepared to deal with the chaos that comes with losing it for the remainder of that restart or until they get it back.

The certain number of cops inside of it wouldnt really work.  Everyone in the back drops out from one spot so its a hard kill spot.  Makes it pointless without additional units covering the drop.  

Only allowing a captain to drive it is a bit silly too, if they manage to be shot out there is really no reason to not allow another cop to hop into driver and finish the push.

From the front it is really hard to hit a .50 cal shot.  We tested this for about 30 minutes.  It is possible, but due to the angled armor on the front most shots are actually ricochetting into the window and do not have the force.  An elevated dead on shot can pen with .50 or 7.62 through the driver or commanders window.  This was confirmed on pushes into events.  

The side and back are very penetrable by .50.  You have to shoot above the seats as they apparantely absorb the bullet, but once it is in it ricochets and wreaks havoc.  So along the windows and maybe 6 inches below the windows and a .50 can just rip dudes.   The windows are 1-2 shot in the back with 7.62.  Again pushing the prison we lost 3 cops from the back being shot out.  

The left side panels of the marid for the driver and commander are fully pennable with .50.  

There are clearly different settings on the server that John Lemmon was testing on.  When you decamp out of this thing it is almost as bad as an orca on the Asylum server.  

This is not near as OP as these people seem to think it is.  Without proper planning and backup it seems it is actually a bit of a hinderance to the APD.  

With the proper planning and backup it just positions cops closer.  Again just changing the dynamic of the fight.  Are people really scared of a cqc fight with cops rather than a snoozefest of ripping cars out as they pile in?

Quit being pussies, and fight the damned thing.  You will then see its not a big deal.  

Ryan., Niklaus, Yuki Hayami and 2 others like this
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13 hours ago, danile666 said:

The certain number of cops inside of it wouldnt really work.  Everyone in the back drops out from one spot so its a hard kill spot.  Makes it pointless without additional units covering the drop.  

Only allowing a captain to drive it is a bit silly too, if they manage to be shot out there is really no reason to not allow another cop to hop into driver and finish the push.

From the front it is really hard to hit a .50 cal shot.  We tested this for about 30 minutes.  It is possible, but due to the angled armor on the front most shots are actually ricochetting into the window and do not have the force.  An elevated dead on shot can pen with .50 or 7.62 through the driver or commanders window.  This was confirmed on pushes into events.  

The side and back are very penetrable by .50.  You have to shoot above the seats as they apparantely absorb the bullet, but once it is in it ricochets and wreaks havoc.  So along the windows and maybe 6 inches below the windows and a .50 can just rip dudes.   The windows are 1-2 shot in the back with 7.62.  Again pushing the prison we lost 3 cops from the back being shot out.  

The left side panels of the marid for the driver and commander are fully pennable with .50.  

There are clearly different settings on the server that John Lemmon was testing on.  When you decamp out of this thing it is almost as bad as an orca on the Asylum server.  

This is not near as OP as these people seem to think it is.  Without proper planning and backup it seems it is actually a bit of a hinderance to the APD.  

With the proper planning and backup it just positions cops closer.  Again just changing the dynamic of the fight.  Are people really scared of a cqc fight with cops rather than a snoozefest of ripping cars out as they pile in?

Quit being pussies, and fight the damned thing.  You will then see its not a big deal.  

The reason I suggested those limitations is there realistically needs to be some restrictions for the police in the use of this vehicle. If there isn't a handful of boxes to check before using it, it will almost certainly be used too frequently. This should rarely be a vehicle that is pulled if it ever gets put in. Why? Because for over half a decade police got by without it when they have good leadership around.

Abu Hajaar, Space, Joshhh and 1 other like this
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16 hours ago, danile666 said:

  Are people really scared of a cqc fight with cops rather than a snoozefest of ripping cars out as they pile in?

Quit being pussies, and fight the damned thing.  You will then see its not a big deal.  

Whats changed that cops suddenly need this helping hand? Why are they losing so much? Should the captains not be looking at what officers are doing when attending banks that are causing them to lose so much? We have done 10+ banks in the last 3 days and lost 1, every time we were outnumbered by cops. Every single bank we do, we have hatchbacks, sometimes FULL hatchbacks try to slam bank when they have no foothold anywhere, except maybe first ATM, what do they expect to happen when they try this??? There appears to be no thought behind pushes, just pull another hatchback and try and not get ripped this time!! There have been multiple instances of cops stacking a single hatchback to come back, die, and get their 2 lives over with so they dont have to repush, do you know how boring it is for us civs??? Instead of crying about needing more help when cops have managed for the last 5 years, you need to look at what cops are doing during your pushes... 

Edited by Joshhh
Good Lub, Abu Hajaar, Azeh and 1 other like this
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5 hours ago, Joshhh said:

Whats changed that cops suddenly need this helping hand? Why are they losing so much? Should the captains not be looking at what officers are doing when attending banks that are causing them to lose so much? We have done 10+ banks in the last 3 days and lost 1, every time we were outnumbered by cops. Every single bank we do, we have hatchbacks, sometimes FULL hatchbacks try to slam bank when they have no foothold anywhere, except maybe first ATM, what do they expect to happen when they try this??? There appears to be no thought behind pushes, just pull another hatchback and try and not get ripped this time!! There have been multiple instances of cops stacking a single hatchback to come back, die, and get their 2 lives over with so they dont have to repush, do you know how boring it is for us civs??? Instead of crying about needing more help when cops have managed for the last 5 years, you need to look at what cops are doing during your pushes... 

tellin on another that they are trash an there gang sucks...i heard enough in one day of cadet to not even waste the time on tryin to play cop cause its a shit show,an god forbid if someone suggested an idea that could maybe work.

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